[Factions Beta] Raid Mobs make walls and cannons completely obsolete

[Poppycon]

We got raided by the faction of bamboo, and before they start going off in the comments, this isn't about who won or lost, I just want to talk about the facts of the raid. It was good to see how exactly raid mobs worked in action, and quite a bit was learned.

Raid mobs can be placed anywhere, inside and outside of faction claims, and will just break through the block in front, making walls completely pointless. Sure, one could buy Spike Barricades, but layering an entire base multiple times over is completely pointless, since there's too much to cover, and all it takes is two or three raid mobs to break through. Cannons are obsolete for the same reason. Raid mobs do the cannon's job better, faster, with no setup, and raid mobs aren't bothered by water nor durability of the obsidian.

Trapping people inside claims, a classic tactic in factions, is also useless since, well, you can just raid mob yourself back out.

Killing raid mobs is impossible really. Defenders have to kill a raid mob with 250 HP breaking their wall... Which is on the opposite side of the wall, and defended by the attackers.

Bases themselves are completely obsolete as a result. Between bunker, PVs, enderchest, shulkers inside PVs, and so on just for storage, as well as bunker being able to brew, smelt, grind mobs... What's the point of a base that can get raided so easily?

Can you really call a realm where cannons are obsolete, and bases not worth building, factions?

 

[Pyrotux]

So we got raided/ online and offline as well because of that and first we though really long how that was possible since we didn´t know that you can place them inside the claims...
most cannons destroyed themselves in testing
And as Poppy already said with the pvs, bunker etc its not even worth much raiding because most valuable stuff is just stored away
There is for sure something needed to get that fixed at all

 

[vinyljackers]

How funny that people that renamed them self to "Gamebreakers" Now is salty that his base got raided due u where litterly using glitches/exploits on our base maybe you should be the last one to cry about this.
Now you at least see how it feels if you cant do anything because the server made it useless.
Even have 2 tickets open about this and no response so.
And just FYI no hate just making my point aswell.

 

[terryZ_]

Hey, thank you for the feedback on raid mobs. Just a quick disclaimer before I respond; these are just all my personal thoughts and I don't speak for any other staff, Dacon etc - so my word isn't official on what will be changed, but just suggestions and thoughts.

Currently, Factions is still in Beta and the purpose of switching from Cannons over to Raid Mobs is to simplify things for newer players. Even the most basics of a cannon can take a bit of time to learn (Barrels, hammers, OS sand, carpet comp, nuke, anti-patch, slab-busters, reverse nukes/hybrids, boosters, which doesn't include illegal cannons such as worms, wall removers, push nukes etc), so the purpose of switching over to Raid Mobs is to make Factions a bit less skill-expressive. Sticking to cannoning has its advantages and disadvantages, and as much as I do enjoy the cannoning & raiding aspect of Factions, it would be much harder to lure new players to join due to the moderately high skill floor cannoning has in comparison to every other server Manacube currently has.

I haven't had the chance to look at the base design that was raided - but you mentioned that it only took 3 raid mobs to go through your base. Even the raid mob that goes the furthest (Warden) hits 20 blocks far - so under the assumption that it had to go 60 blocks/30 walls assuming there's a gap in-between each wall. Is there a current expectation on how many walls, claims etc a faction needs to properly defend against raid mobs? (Past expectation of old Factions was a base to have 120 walls on each side of their base). How much time does it take for someone to raid a standard base? There is also reinforced obsidian as another defending tool we added to make raids harder - but we're always open to balancing either the raiding, or defending aspect of Factions. I'm currently brainstorming rules that may balance defending/raids as we had rules against illegal raid defences, cannons, base sizes, amount of walls etc - which hopefully can be smoothed out over the duration of Beta testing.

Addressing the trapping - are raid mobs allowed to be used in combat? If players are breaking out from traps with raid mobs, a solution would be to disable players placing them while in combat - which I can suggest if it's an issue. With the current poll up on changes to combat (McMMO, 1.8 PVP), this may also make raid mobs easier to kill depending on the damage changes. Nothing's set yet, but damage adjustments + the speed of raid mobs breaking blocks can also be adjusted if they're too hard to defend against.

At the moment, we're currently brainstorming ideas and a new set of rules that will also hopefully adjust the current gameplay involving bases, shulkers, PV's that make it way easier for players to store items and valuables, and decrease the purpose of raids. The past variant of Factions disallowed players placing any spawners within containers with the exception of /f vault - but may also be considered too competitive for some players. With the changes to a leaderboard that gives the top faction with the most value placed in their land, this may persuade players to place spawners & value in their bases. We had similar issues within the past seasons, and we're always open to suggestions that encourages players to raid & place value.

Eventually, many things are still open for talks and we're always happy to listen to your feedback, bug reports, suggestions (whether it's overpowered or underpowered parts of current Factions) so we're able to provide everyone the best experience of Factions once an official season is announced. Feel free to let us know of any aspects of current Factions that can be improved!

 

[Hash____]

Hey, thank you for the feedback on raid mobs. Just a quick disclaimer before I respond; these are just all my personal thoughts and I don't speak for any other staff, Dacon etc - so my word isn't official on what will be changed, but just suggestions and thoughts.

Currently, Factions is still in Beta and the purpose of switching from Cannons over to Raid Mobs is to simplify things for newer players. Even the most basics of a cannon can take a bit of time to learn (Barrels, hammers, OS sand, carpet comp, nuke, anti-patch, slab-busters, reverse nukes/hybrids, boosters, which doesn't include illegal cannons such as worms, wall removers, push nukes etc), so the purpose of switching over to Raid Mobs is to make Factions a bit less skill-expressive. Sticking to cannoning has its advantages and disadvantages, and as much as I do enjoy the cannoning & raiding aspect of Factions, it would be much harder to lure new players to join due to the moderately high skill floor cannoning has in comparison to every other server Manacube currently has.

I haven't had the chance to look at the base design that was raided - but you mentioned that it only took 3 raid mobs to go through your base. Even the raid mob that goes the furthest (Warden) hits 20 blocks far - so under the assumption that it had to go 60 blocks/30 walls assuming there's a gap in-between each wall. Is there a current expectation on how many walls, claims etc a faction needs to properly defend against raid mobs? (Past expectation of old Factions was a base to have 120 walls on each side of their base). How much time does it take for someone to raid a standard base? There is also reinforced obsidian as another defending tool we added to make raids harder - but we're always open to balancing either the raiding, or defending aspect of Factions. I'm currently brainstorming rules that may balance defending/raids as we had rules against illegal raid defences, cannons, base sizes, amount of walls etc - which hopefully can be smoothed out over the duration of Beta testing.

Addressing the trapping - are raid mobs allowed to be used in combat? If players are breaking out from traps with raid mobs, a solution would be to disable players placing them while in combat - which I can suggest if it's an issue. With the current poll up on changes to combat (McMMO, 1.8 PVP), this may also make raid mobs easier to kill depending on the damage changes. Nothing's set yet, but damage adjustments + the speed of raid mobs breaking blocks can also be adjusted if they're too hard to defend against.

At the moment, we're currently brainstorming ideas and a new set of rules that will also hopefully adjust the current gameplay involving bases, shulkers, PV's that make it way easier for players to store items and valuables, and decrease the purpose of raids. The past variant of Factions disallowed players placing any spawners within containers with the exception of /f vault - but may also be considered too competitive for some players. With the changes to a leaderboard that gives the top faction with the most value placed in their land, this may persuade players to place spawners & value in their bases. We had similar issues within the past seasons, and we're always open to suggestions that encourages players to raid & place value.

Eventually, many things are still open for talks and we're always happy to listen to your feedback, bug reports, suggestions (whether it's overpowered or underpowered parts of current Factions) so we're able to provide everyone the best experience of Factions once an official season is announced. Feel free to let us know of any aspects of current Factions that can be improved!

Terry this is valid, cannons are hard to learn that’s why factions is such a beautiful mode there are also so many aspects to it. I played with you you farmed didn’t really make a lot of cannons anyone with free time can farm, or pvp, or mob grind. There’s so many things please revert.