On May 22nd, 2020, a builder was graded B for the following plot:
http://prntscr.com/sm3gq7
http://prntscr.com/sm3hir
http://prntscr.com/sm3hua
http://prntscr.com/sm3i3j
The plot can be viewed in full at /warp Ex1 on creative.
As a builder on this server for seven years, and a former creative staff member who was known for grading harshly, I think this grade creates a very unhealthy precedent. I reached out to the staff member who graded the build, and paraphrasing, they responded with three points:
1) The build did not meet the terrain requirement per grading policy.
2) It was cluttered.
3) A certain level of detail is expected for higher grades.
Let me first respond to those three points.
The first point, and most prominent problem, is that not every great build needs terrain. Visit /oldcreative, and /warp ex2. Fly around that plot for five minutes, and you will begin to understand that not every A worthy, or even A+ worthy build needs terrain. Certain building styles, cyberpunk especially, required dense structures and may not need terrain at all. This is the case in the aforementioned build.
The second point disenfranchises whole styles of building, cyberpunk amongst them. The close-nit, tight alleyways of tall macro detailed structure defines the genre this plot is aiming to represent. Saying it is too cluttered writes off this entire genre. Creative staff sometimes do not understand different styles of building. This leads to an undervaluing of builds like this, and the devaluing of organics on the server is another great example.
Lastly, and most importantly, the final point talks about a certain level of detail being 'expected'. What is that level? Is it commonly understood? Are grades given with ample explanation, and tips on how to improve, or are they given with cold shoulders and silence? I asked more than a dozen creative players and high ranked builders about this build, and the all but one I asked agreed this plot deserved higher than B. B+ was what most agreed upon.
In addition, I asked them all the same five questions.
1) How long have you been a player on creative? What building experience do you have if any?
2) Do you think the grading system is fair?
3) Do you believe the grading process could be improved? If so, how?
4) Do you believe all staff are qualified to grade, without name calling?
5) Some builders and community members have expressed concerns than Manacube is losing talent because of its grading system. Do you think this to be true? Are builders prevented from improving?
---
Here is the list of people I asked (Proof at the bottom of the post):
[A] [ELITE] Arkhitecture_
[MVP+] MaqDonalds
[B+] Vationz
[B+] Farlag
[Member] Sinachu
[MVP] FrenchKnife
[C] OgreDrupe
[A+/Marketplace Builder] Aerios
[C+] [VIP] Nitm
[A+] [VIP+] Jordn
[A+] Wormstew
[C+] [MVP+] NotCoolHammers
[A+] IRiceI
It is important to mention that the validity of these players claims, especially relating to building, should be taken seriously no matter their grade. Many, if not all, expressed concerns around the validity of the grading system itself. Therefor, grades mean rather little here. Focus on their overall experience. I have included their answers, proof in the form of discord message screenshots, at the bottom of this post. I encourage everyone to read them in full.
To stop this post from being a novel, I will summarize the main points of the answers I received.
RESPONDENT EXPERIENCE
In response to the first question, the people I talked to were intentionally different ranks, with a focus on skilled builders. I tried to gather the opinions of as many B builders and above, while also talking to donators and community members. Some of the builders I talked to were highly skilled, long-time creative players.
FAIRNESS IN GRADING
The second question comes as a result of many active community members expressing concerns about foul play. Everyone I asked said the grading system was unfair. Some attributed that to the policies which create the backbone of the system. For example, a majority agreed that terrain should not be required for a high grade, and that requiring it unnecessarily restricted creative freedoms. Many also expressed concerns around favoritism.
I was showed, by those I talked to, around plots they thought were graded unfairly. I will not make a claim about fairness. What I can say, at the very least and without a doubt, is there are extreme discrepancies between certain graded plots. Players may manifest those disparities into what they perceive as unfairness.
Here are some quotes from the answers I received:
"I've also seen prejudice in builds, some staff will grade well-known people better, and grade friends better." - OgreDrupe
"Due to the in-consistent grading standards and un-clarity in feedback given to builds I do not think its currently fair. Grade based treatment amongst players based on how well known, or how liked they are is evidently visible (as bad as it sounds to say)" - Vationz
"It seems well-known people have a bit more of a chance. But the most popular people seem to get more 'free passes'." - Sinachu
"I feel like some builds are getting preferential treatment for some reason that some plots are being overgraded (given higher grades) for a build of lesser quality than others."**
"I think reviewing on here is so incredibly biased. It's an appeal to what a reviewer loves the most and in any competition that negative bias ruins any sort of fun in being creative." - Aerios
In any server with a progression system, special attention must be given to claims like these. It may be that these claims of injustice are rooted in grading inconsistencies, which in my opinion, is most important. I will discuss potential remedies at the end of this post.
GRADING PROCESS IMPROVEMENTS
The majority of creative players I talked with said the grading process was in dire need of repair. Most agreed that while grading, staff should give detailed reasoning behind the grade. In order to improve, detailed feedback is necessary. That means whoever is responsible for the grading should be able to defend the grade with sound reasoning, and solid examples. The current examples, warp [grade] are not updated. Players rely on this for consistency. In addition, many builders expressed that they would like to see other ranked builders grade their plots. Most agreed on a simple fact: a staff member should not be able to grade a build higher than they have achieved. When typing /grades, very little information is given on exactly how to achieve each grade, and coupled with the outdated grade warp examples, may lend to the inconsistencies players feel make the grading system unfair.
QUALIFIED GRADERS
Without exception, every player I talked to expressed concerns around how they believed some staff were not qualified to grade. Most of the answers I received can be summed in Vationz' great explanation:
"This is a hard topic to discuss really - since genuinely, all mods that are currently in there positions are great people. (very nice, friendly and useful when required). However disregarding that, i do feel some mods aren't qualified to grade in all honesty. Some mods amongst creative from what I've seen - are simply put it bad when it comes to grading for example, organics, or terrain (A lot of them seem to have preferred styles of building such as dominantly structure) organics tend to be neglected as such (A common discussion or fact known amongst mana players)."
When Vationz says it is a common fact known in the community that certain style/types of building, organics among them, are neglected- they hit the nail right on the head. This very fact may be the reason the build discussed at the top of this post received a lower grade than all the respondents agreed it deserved. Most answers I received discussed the need for qualified, ranked builders to grade other builders.
LOSS OF TALENT
The most important question was met with the most important answers. All respondents, for one reason or another, believed Manacube was losing a lot of creative talent. Most agreed this was due to the problems with the grading policies and procedures, which they saw discourage people from pursuing higher ranks. A loss of talent in Manacube's creative server is extremely important for two reasons:
1) The institutional memory of the creative server depends on retaining building talent so that players can learn from other past builds. If this cycle stops, it will only serve to diminish the creative population to the three people who roleplay high school drama in chat.
2) Retaining builders on a creative plot server means retaining a steady playerbase. A steady playerbase pays the bills.
CLOSING REMARKS
I talked to two longtime members of the server, and high ranked staff, who said that they had no worries about the grade of the first shown plot. That if there was a problem, they would have heard the concern by now. The reality is much different. I was not able to include many people I talked to because of fear of some form of retaliation. More were hesitant about contributing. Many of the community members I talked to expressed concerns of favoritism. When I was talking to these staff member, simply attempting to understand the rationale of the grade given to the plot discussed at the start of the post, they felt defensive. My intention was not to attack their decision, but rather to understand it. I was explicitly told that the decision making process was to be made behind closed doors, in staff chat. In my opinion, this is not a good environment to spur creativity.
I want to also mention that there were individuals I spoke to, mostly staff members and one graded builder who agreed with the grade given on the plot discussed at the top of the post. Not everyone on the server is in complete agreement on the exact details of the grading system. That said, the overwhelming majority of the creative community recognizes there are serious problems.
I will never bring up a problem without offering my prospective solutions. Here is what I think can be done to improve how the community feels about the grading system.
First, working with the community and talented builders within, staff should revisit the warp [grades] and establish strong precedents everyone agrees on. This was set the backbone of the system, and ensure everyone is on the same page. By speaking with the community, it is clear that the first plot mentioned in this post was seen not as a B but as B+. Perhaps that can be a good starting point.
Secondly, creative staff should revisit their grading policies. If most of the building talent in the server agrees that you don't need terrain for a higher grade, for example, this policy should not exist. At the very least, some sort of compromise should be reached. For example, maybe terrain is not necessary to achieve any grade beneath [A]. It seems revisiting how staff approach different styles, cyberpunk and sci-fi among them, is also important. The thought process behind grading organics, the community agrees, must also be revisited.
Thirdly, the process in which grades are given should be revamped. The first thing is to ensure a high degree of transparency behind the decision making process. Staff should, on the plot they are grading, place signs explaining their decision in detail. This will allow the broader community, and the graded player to learn from their builds. It will preserve institutional memory and encourage people to develop their skills. The community agrees that staff who are not ranked at or above the build they are grading should not be involved in that decision. The best way to ensure grades are given fairly might be to intertwine talented builders in the decision making process somehow.
Closing, I believe that the Manacube staff, an excellent and kind group, will take this feedback at heart. These members of the community felt the need to speak up for changes they believed would benefit this server. They should be praised for doing so. Their feedback should be meticulously reviewed. More than that, it should be implemented wherever possible. I want to thank all the community members who helped out, and like them, hope the community is heard loud and clear. Let's work together to improve this wonderful community and ensure its bright future.
MESSAGE PROOF
http://prntscr.com/sm3gq7
http://prntscr.com/sm3hir
http://prntscr.com/sm3hua
http://prntscr.com/sm3i3j
The plot can be viewed in full at /warp Ex1 on creative.
As a builder on this server for seven years, and a former creative staff member who was known for grading harshly, I think this grade creates a very unhealthy precedent. I reached out to the staff member who graded the build, and paraphrasing, they responded with three points:
1) The build did not meet the terrain requirement per grading policy.
2) It was cluttered.
3) A certain level of detail is expected for higher grades.
Let me first respond to those three points.
The first point, and most prominent problem, is that not every great build needs terrain. Visit /oldcreative, and /warp ex2. Fly around that plot for five minutes, and you will begin to understand that not every A worthy, or even A+ worthy build needs terrain. Certain building styles, cyberpunk especially, required dense structures and may not need terrain at all. This is the case in the aforementioned build.
The second point disenfranchises whole styles of building, cyberpunk amongst them. The close-nit, tight alleyways of tall macro detailed structure defines the genre this plot is aiming to represent. Saying it is too cluttered writes off this entire genre. Creative staff sometimes do not understand different styles of building. This leads to an undervaluing of builds like this, and the devaluing of organics on the server is another great example.
Lastly, and most importantly, the final point talks about a certain level of detail being 'expected'. What is that level? Is it commonly understood? Are grades given with ample explanation, and tips on how to improve, or are they given with cold shoulders and silence? I asked more than a dozen creative players and high ranked builders about this build, and the all but one I asked agreed this plot deserved higher than B. B+ was what most agreed upon.
In addition, I asked them all the same five questions.
1) How long have you been a player on creative? What building experience do you have if any?
2) Do you think the grading system is fair?
3) Do you believe the grading process could be improved? If so, how?
4) Do you believe all staff are qualified to grade, without name calling?
5) Some builders and community members have expressed concerns than Manacube is losing talent because of its grading system. Do you think this to be true? Are builders prevented from improving?
---
Here is the list of people I asked (Proof at the bottom of the post):
[A] [ELITE] Arkhitecture_
[MVP+] MaqDonalds
[B+] Vationz
[B+] Farlag
[Member] Sinachu
[MVP] FrenchKnife
[C] OgreDrupe
[A+/Marketplace Builder] Aerios
[C+] [VIP] Nitm
[A+] [VIP+] Jordn
[A+] Wormstew
[C+] [MVP+] NotCoolHammers
[A+] IRiceI
It is important to mention that the validity of these players claims, especially relating to building, should be taken seriously no matter their grade. Many, if not all, expressed concerns around the validity of the grading system itself. Therefor, grades mean rather little here. Focus on their overall experience. I have included their answers, proof in the form of discord message screenshots, at the bottom of this post. I encourage everyone to read them in full.
To stop this post from being a novel, I will summarize the main points of the answers I received.
RESPONDENT EXPERIENCE
In response to the first question, the people I talked to were intentionally different ranks, with a focus on skilled builders. I tried to gather the opinions of as many B builders and above, while also talking to donators and community members. Some of the builders I talked to were highly skilled, long-time creative players.
FAIRNESS IN GRADING
The second question comes as a result of many active community members expressing concerns about foul play. Everyone I asked said the grading system was unfair. Some attributed that to the policies which create the backbone of the system. For example, a majority agreed that terrain should not be required for a high grade, and that requiring it unnecessarily restricted creative freedoms. Many also expressed concerns around favoritism.
I was showed, by those I talked to, around plots they thought were graded unfairly. I will not make a claim about fairness. What I can say, at the very least and without a doubt, is there are extreme discrepancies between certain graded plots. Players may manifest those disparities into what they perceive as unfairness.
Here are some quotes from the answers I received:
"I've also seen prejudice in builds, some staff will grade well-known people better, and grade friends better." - OgreDrupe
"Due to the in-consistent grading standards and un-clarity in feedback given to builds I do not think its currently fair. Grade based treatment amongst players based on how well known, or how liked they are is evidently visible (as bad as it sounds to say)" - Vationz
"It seems well-known people have a bit more of a chance. But the most popular people seem to get more 'free passes'." - Sinachu
"I feel like some builds are getting preferential treatment for some reason that some plots are being overgraded (given higher grades) for a build of lesser quality than others."**
"I think reviewing on here is so incredibly biased. It's an appeal to what a reviewer loves the most and in any competition that negative bias ruins any sort of fun in being creative." - Aerios
In any server with a progression system, special attention must be given to claims like these. It may be that these claims of injustice are rooted in grading inconsistencies, which in my opinion, is most important. I will discuss potential remedies at the end of this post.
GRADING PROCESS IMPROVEMENTS
The majority of creative players I talked with said the grading process was in dire need of repair. Most agreed that while grading, staff should give detailed reasoning behind the grade. In order to improve, detailed feedback is necessary. That means whoever is responsible for the grading should be able to defend the grade with sound reasoning, and solid examples. The current examples, warp [grade] are not updated. Players rely on this for consistency. In addition, many builders expressed that they would like to see other ranked builders grade their plots. Most agreed on a simple fact: a staff member should not be able to grade a build higher than they have achieved. When typing /grades, very little information is given on exactly how to achieve each grade, and coupled with the outdated grade warp examples, may lend to the inconsistencies players feel make the grading system unfair.
QUALIFIED GRADERS
Without exception, every player I talked to expressed concerns around how they believed some staff were not qualified to grade. Most of the answers I received can be summed in Vationz' great explanation:
"This is a hard topic to discuss really - since genuinely, all mods that are currently in there positions are great people. (very nice, friendly and useful when required). However disregarding that, i do feel some mods aren't qualified to grade in all honesty. Some mods amongst creative from what I've seen - are simply put it bad when it comes to grading for example, organics, or terrain (A lot of them seem to have preferred styles of building such as dominantly structure) organics tend to be neglected as such (A common discussion or fact known amongst mana players)."
When Vationz says it is a common fact known in the community that certain style/types of building, organics among them, are neglected- they hit the nail right on the head. This very fact may be the reason the build discussed at the top of this post received a lower grade than all the respondents agreed it deserved. Most answers I received discussed the need for qualified, ranked builders to grade other builders.
LOSS OF TALENT
The most important question was met with the most important answers. All respondents, for one reason or another, believed Manacube was losing a lot of creative talent. Most agreed this was due to the problems with the grading policies and procedures, which they saw discourage people from pursuing higher ranks. A loss of talent in Manacube's creative server is extremely important for two reasons:
1) The institutional memory of the creative server depends on retaining building talent so that players can learn from other past builds. If this cycle stops, it will only serve to diminish the creative population to the three people who roleplay high school drama in chat.
2) Retaining builders on a creative plot server means retaining a steady playerbase. A steady playerbase pays the bills.
CLOSING REMARKS
I talked to two longtime members of the server, and high ranked staff, who said that they had no worries about the grade of the first shown plot. That if there was a problem, they would have heard the concern by now. The reality is much different. I was not able to include many people I talked to because of fear of some form of retaliation. More were hesitant about contributing. Many of the community members I talked to expressed concerns of favoritism. When I was talking to these staff member, simply attempting to understand the rationale of the grade given to the plot discussed at the start of the post, they felt defensive. My intention was not to attack their decision, but rather to understand it. I was explicitly told that the decision making process was to be made behind closed doors, in staff chat. In my opinion, this is not a good environment to spur creativity.
I want to also mention that there were individuals I spoke to, mostly staff members and one graded builder who agreed with the grade given on the plot discussed at the top of the post. Not everyone on the server is in complete agreement on the exact details of the grading system. That said, the overwhelming majority of the creative community recognizes there are serious problems.
I will never bring up a problem without offering my prospective solutions. Here is what I think can be done to improve how the community feels about the grading system.
First, working with the community and talented builders within, staff should revisit the warp [grades] and establish strong precedents everyone agrees on. This was set the backbone of the system, and ensure everyone is on the same page. By speaking with the community, it is clear that the first plot mentioned in this post was seen not as a B but as B+. Perhaps that can be a good starting point.
Secondly, creative staff should revisit their grading policies. If most of the building talent in the server agrees that you don't need terrain for a higher grade, for example, this policy should not exist. At the very least, some sort of compromise should be reached. For example, maybe terrain is not necessary to achieve any grade beneath [A]. It seems revisiting how staff approach different styles, cyberpunk and sci-fi among them, is also important. The thought process behind grading organics, the community agrees, must also be revisited.
Thirdly, the process in which grades are given should be revamped. The first thing is to ensure a high degree of transparency behind the decision making process. Staff should, on the plot they are grading, place signs explaining their decision in detail. This will allow the broader community, and the graded player to learn from their builds. It will preserve institutional memory and encourage people to develop their skills. The community agrees that staff who are not ranked at or above the build they are grading should not be involved in that decision. The best way to ensure grades are given fairly might be to intertwine talented builders in the decision making process somehow.
Closing, I believe that the Manacube staff, an excellent and kind group, will take this feedback at heart. These members of the community felt the need to speak up for changes they believed would benefit this server. They should be praised for doing so. Their feedback should be meticulously reviewed. More than that, it should be implemented wherever possible. I want to thank all the community members who helped out, and like them, hope the community is heard loud and clear. Let's work together to improve this wonderful community and ensure its bright future.
MESSAGE PROOF
Last edited:
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