Rapid rule adjustments

SSM_GOD

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#1
Welcome
I think that when any rule that's not specifically listed on the forum rules should be added to the rules page and or wiki once a decision has been made by the staff. Like if paying a player for one service isn't allowed but another is.
I know this would help me better know exactly what may be consider bug abuse or boosting or something like that. And I'm sure many others would agree
Just now I saw someone ask if drag clicking is allowed, and on some other servers it's not, so as a response I saw one player say that it is not, eventho it is. so if it explicitly said it's allowed on the rules page, this inconsistency and misinformation would have been avoided.

On a separate server they made a Google doc with a table listing specifically what actions follow what punishment path and what the punishments are. I think a thing of this sort on manacube would also be helpful. I've often seen players confused on why their punishment is something specific and they have to ask staff which does often lead to inconsistency. If it's on one document, it will always be the same response for everyone.
 

Awpinq

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#2
I Honestly Have To Agree With You On The One. There Is This Really Weird Sort Of -- Gray Area, Or Blurred Lines Between What's Legal And What's Not, And Then The Punishments For Such Action. I Think That You Present A Good Argument With An Example From In Game, And A Solution That Another Server Has Used. I Think This Would Not Only Benefit The Player Base To Get Rid Of That Haziness Between The Rules, But Would Also Help Out The Staff Members To Deal With Less Punishments And What Not, And Could Instead Focus On More Important Things, Or Just Their Own Time. Overall, Really Good Suggestion, And You For Sure Have My Support Behind It. Let's Hope It Can Make A Change!
 

SSM_GOD

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#3
precisely!
basically life on manacube is: you dont know the rules until youve broken them
on olympus they copy paste the generic rules from skyblock but dont update them anywhere and also change some critical rules. were 3+ weeks into the new season and the rules page isnt updated
 

EvanTech

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#4
"As we are not perfect and because it is not possible to list every possible way to violate the intent of the rules, we ask you to use common sense."

The rules do cover every concept that is not allowed, as we cannot specifically mention every situation that breaks the rules, we ask you simply use common sense, if you have to question if something isn't allowed, it most likely isn't. For example, using <10 alts to AFK is fine but using alts to specifically claim mass amounts of rewards falls under alt boosting which is not allowed. Players can always clarify with staff as well, whether that's through helpop or messages.

The best place to go for specific examples is the wiki, there you can find some rules explained more in depth and even a page of allowed modifications.
 

SSM_GOD

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#5
Don't suggest to use what already exists, which is what I'm saying is the problem. I'm provided a solution to improve communication and clarification on the rules.

The rules do cover every concept that is not allowed
Maybe every major concept. But for example alt islands are allowed on skyblock if they don't provide a profit but we're not allowed last season on Olympus for any reason.
if you have to question if something isn't allowed, it most likely isn't.
False. Well, if its me who asks, maybe, but for most people, no. Do you see how many people ask if /sell macro is allowed? Or if they're allowed to afk? Things like this are not allowed on some other servers but are on manacube which explain why the question was asked.
For example, using <10 alts to AFK is fine
This is directly against what both the wiki and website rules say.
Players can always clarify with staff as well, whether that's through helpop or messages.
I don't receive answers. I've asked a number of questions several times in game chat, in game messages, on the discord help channels, in discord dms, and I don't get responses.
The best place to go for specific examples is the wiki, there you can find some rules explained more in depth and even a page of allowed modifications.
The wiki lacks most of the rule information useful for advanced players. It only gives a basic introduction to the rules for first day players. Greatly lacks in depth explanations of rules.

What I'm asking for is a place where consistent answers are listed for specific questions about rules.
'Is a /sell macro allowed?' Yes. Auto chat macros, like pressing [j] to /sell are allowed. However, macros which control the players actions aren't.
'Is a macro to auto harvest carrots allowed?' No. Macros, or any modification, which automatically control the players movements are not allowed.
'Am I allowed to claim cash Cow on alts?' Yes, but you are limited to claiming rewards on up to 10 accounts total.
Etc etc


The website and wiki rules have not been updated for this season eventhough the rules have changed. Common sense is confusing for some when the rules for the same thing are different gamemode to gamemode.

"As we are not perfect and because it is not possible to list every possible way to violate the intent of the rules, we ask you to use common sense."
Obviously you can't list everything. But it takes 15 seconds to add something once it has been discussed and decided on.
 

Awpinq

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#6
"As we are not perfect and because it is not possible to list every possible way to violate the intent of the rules, we ask you to use common sense."
This Is Not Some Player Vs. Staff Thing, The Players Just Believe There Can Be Improvements, It's Not About Player Or Staff, It's About Reaching A Better Place For ManaCube And All The Players That Play. I Think It's Something Staff Could At Least Look At And Discuss, It's Not About What Already Exists, It's About Expanding What Already Exists.
 

EvanTech

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#7
Don't suggest to use what already exists, which is what I'm saying is the problem. I'm provided a solution to improve communication and clarification on the rules.
This Is Not Some Player Vs. Staff Thing, The Players Just Believe There Can Be Improvements, It's Not About Player Or Staff, It's About Reaching A Better Place For ManaCube And All The Players That Play. I Think It's Something Staff Could At Least Look At And Discuss, It's Not About What Already Exists, It's About Expanding What Already Exists.
It is not a player vs. staff thing, you're right. I am simply stating that the resources provided to you already satisfy the concern at hand. Not that there can't be changes, but for what you have as of right now, it's a system that works which I am trying to guide you through utilizing. And Awpinq, that quote is directly from the first line of the rules page. I didn't make that up, it was the owner.

Maybe every major concept. But for example alt islands are allowed on skyblock if they don't provide a profit but we're not allowed last season on Olympus for any reason.
If there's a difference in rules between gamemodes, they are listed separately under their respective places on the rules page.

False. Well, if its me who asks, maybe, but for most people, no. Do you see how many people ask if /sell macro is allowed? Or if they're allowed to afk? Things like this are not allowed on some other servers but are on manacube which explain why the question was asked.
The point of that message was that if something is not explicitly stated, it's better to assume it's not allowed to not risk punishment and later said that players are encouraged to follow up with staff to clarify rules if they are unsure. Not every specific situation can be listed and discretion should be used.

This is directly against what both the wiki and website rules say.
I pulled that directly from the wiki. Running under 10 alts is fine. You also state
" 'Am I allowed to claim cash Cow on alts?' Yes, but you are limited to claiming rewards on up to 10 accounts total.
Etc etc "

I don't receive answers. I've asked a number of questions several times in game chat, in game messages, on the discord help channels, in discord dms, and I don't get responses.
Everything is answered, if it's missed, that's on us and we do what we can to make it right. If you're being ignored by specific people, that is a different problem which can be resolved personally with that individual. It also helps to ping staff in Discord, not doing so then complaining when it doesn't get answered is not our fault.

The wiki lacks most of the rule information useful for advanced players. It only gives a basic introduction to the rules for first day players. Greatly lacks in depth explanations of rules.

What I'm asking for is a place where consistent answers are listed for specific questions about rules.
'Is a /sell macro allowed?' Yes. Auto chat macros, like pressing [j] to /sell are allowed. However, macros which control the players actions aren't.
'Is a macro to auto harvest carrots allowed?' No. Macros, or any modification, which automatically control the players movements are not allowed.
'Am I allowed to claim cash Cow on alts?' Yes, but you are limited to claiming rewards on up to 10 accounts total.
Etc etc


The website and wiki rules have not been updated for this season eventhough the rules have changed. Common sense is confusing for some when the rules for the same thing are different gamemode to gamemode.


Obviously you can't list everything. But it takes 15 seconds to add something once it has been discussed and decided on.
If you have something you would like added to the wiki FAQ or other section, contact a staff member and we will refer it to the wiki peeps. The wiki and rules still majorly answer all the questions you have asked so far and again, asking a quick question "Is this punishable under this rule" is always an option.
Macro examples:
Cash cow and 1 time reward examples:
It does not take 15 seconds to add it and there is a process to everything. Patience is key my good sir, we can't magically speed everything up and make good to all, no one can be 100% satisfied to their liking.
 

SSM_GOD

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#8
I am simply stating that the resources provided to you already satisfy the concern at hand.
What you are suggesting to use IS the concern. It's exactly what I'm saying should be improved with specifics.
As a metaphor, you're giving me a book called Photosynthesis that doesn't tell me the photosynthetic reaction equation, and when I tell you the book doesn't tell me the equation which I need to use for a quiz, you tell me to 'read the book'.
If there's a difference in rules between gamemodes, they are listed separately under their respective places on the rules page.
(referencing the screenshot) If an alt owns a plot for decoration which gives 0 profit, its not alt boosting. So how any why would that be prohibited? (rhetorical, for now) These sort of inconsistencies confuse people which is why there should be clearer rules.
The point of that message was that if something is not explicitly stated, it's better to assume it's not allowed to not risk punishment and later said that players are encouraged to follow up with staff to clarify rules if they are unsure.
Agreed, but, if its something a player wants to do, and its not explicitly prohibited, they should ask. All I want is for those questions and answers to be logged in one location for consistency and availability for everyone to see. And it does take 15 seconds to edit the page with the question and answer once it has been discussed. Obviously not every rule would be on there, but as specifics of rules are discussed, they should be added, and I'd encourage adding examples. As mentioned in the second part of the original post, that other server had a table listing specifics of what counts as a rule violation, and what doesn't, under each concept.
"Not every specific situation can be listed and discretion should be used"
Once decided, the specifics CAN be listed and SHOULD be listed. That is my suggestion to add for the wiki/website. Discretion should always be used, but that's besides the point.


The examples of rules I used were already on the page bug I was trying to show how they could be more clearly explained. Especially in "Rebinding a command or message to a key is not considered a macro..." because right above that it says autosell macros aren't allowed. In chat yesterday, ranged said sell macros aren't allowed, which is a poor explanation of the rule and not informative, and then some players were saying 'all those poor sell macro users getting banned' which is false. See the inconsistency? See the misinformation? See the confusion? These would be better avoided with clear and specific explanations. I am suggesting clearer and more specific examples to be added on the website/wiki.

If you have something you would like added to the wiki FAQ or other section, contact a staff member and we will refer it to the wiki peeps. The wiki and rules still majorly answer all the questions you have asked so far and again, asking a quick question "Is this punishable under this rule" is always an option.
Macro examples:
Cash cow and 1 time reward examples:
It does not take 15 seconds to add it and there is a process to everything. Patience is key my good sir, we can't magically speed everything up and make good to all, no one can be 100% satisfied to their liking.
This whole post is my suggestion for what should be added to the wiki/website..... I don't know all the specific rules and what counts as what, so I'm asking for those to be added as their decided.
All my questions here, yes, those have been on the wiki and website. But they were just examples of how the explanations of those rules could be improved. All of my other questions, not mentioned on this post, spur from the changing rules across gamemodes and seasons and are not clearly listed, or listed at all, on the wiki/website.
I know it doesn't take 15 seconds to discuss and decide on a rule, but that's not what I'm saying. It takes 15 seconds to type the rule out on a webpage. The rule/interpretation/specification is already being typed out to the person asking or in violation- so just also type it on the webpage for everyone to see, for consistency.