WHY DID YOU TRY TO BAN HEADS WTF (Rant)

zzykrkv

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#1
I do not believe 1.8 and 1.9+ can co-exist peacefully.
Recently there has been an attempt to ban heads because they lagged in later versions. I honestly think this was an absolutely terrible decision and I’m glad this was reverted. This would have had a detrimental impact to the already questionable quality of the parkour on this server. Heads are a very special and unique block because they can act as both a cobblewall and a unique block that’s the same length as a short pane but thicker and a different height. This allows for many unique jumps to be made. Furthermore, heads are highly customizable, meaning they fit in pretty much every theme. Banning them would not only shut a massive branch of possibilities, it would encourage the use of bad and ugly blocks like brewing stands and enchantment tables.

I understand that this was proposed in attempt to cater for people playing on later versions, but this is the wrong way of approaching this. There should not be any attempt to try and smooth out the differences between the versions, because this just doesn’t work. Not only does this not help, it neglects way bigger lag issues that in theory would also warrant an extreme ban similar to what almost happened to this server. Something this catastrophic should never have gotten as far as it is, and I hope people can reconsider trying to mix versions that do not mix.

It is understandable that single panes were banned, as this not only creates 1.9 exploits, it also lags for 1.8 people, making an unenjoyable experience. However, these ban rules are still imo inconsistent. For example, this lag can be avoided by staying away from certain parts of the single pane. However, there are other blocks that also lag, and do cause a lot of frustration. The major one is a door flick. If you go into the door, you will lag back, and this is very annoying. Same goes with soul sand and snow. These blocks also lag a lot. I suspect it’s because both those blocks have models different to their bounding box, just an observation. One can argue it takes skill to avoid the lag blocks, however this can be applied to the single pane too. Despite this, I understand why they are banned. However, this should not carry over to blocks that lag on OTHER versions which is NOT the version this server intends to play on.

Trying to ban heads really blew my mind. To be honest, I did not think people could have come up with such an insane idea, and it makes me worry for what future changes are planned. Heads are far from the only blocks that lag, and if these rules were to be consistent, they should follow through to ban all headhitters or low ceilings, because they also lag in 1.9+ due to changed sneak. This includes ladders that hit ceilings. This happens just as often as he head lag, why don’t we also ban that? It just doesn’t work.

The different versions are simply not compatible. We should not try to ruin the parkour experience just to cater to those on the wrong version. What’s the point of calling it a 1.8 server if we ruin the 1.8 experience just to cater to 1.9 players?
To demonstrate how incompatible different versions are, I will list ONLY SOME of the changes in the following categories: 1.8, 1.9-1.12, 1.13, 1.14+

1.9:
-Physics become more slippery. Vertical speed in affected creating some jumps impossible in 1.9 such as in Bookworm. It also allows for big exploits to happen due to a new threshold of jumping.
-Sneak height is lowered. This causes lag when hitting a ceiling when sneaked, especially problematic on ladders.
-Single panes are different, short panes are longer. Ladders are thicker, lilypads are smaller. This allows for me to make jumps impossible in 1.9, and allows you to climb the water on a lilypad.

1.13:
-Anvils are completely different, allows for big skips and exploits, there’s this one sexy skip in one of my levels : ) (who can find it?)
-Water physics completely different. Many jumps are way easier or cheesable, like the blip in Happy. Allowed me to skip an entire cp in ElAteneo

1.14+:
-Sneak height lowered again. Allowed me to skip a few jumps in ElAteneo. Also causes more lag LOL. Also makes adv hh impossible.
-Ladders can now be climbed with space. Allows for some great cheesing, such as the vine in Deadmau5.
-Blip ups gone, making a lot of jumps impossible.
-Collision changed, meaning in most cases all jumps are x facing. Makes some jumps way harder or easier than intended.
Less important, but in 1.15 soulsand+ice no longer works, as well as some other “ice blocks”.

I don’t want any of the things mentioned above to lead to banned blocks. None of it should, certainly not heads. The point is, different versions are so different that they are simply not compatible. Trying to cater to all versions is problematic, especially for a parkour server. The result is shit like this where heads were almost banned. We should just leave 1.9+ induced lag alone and focus on the 1.8 experience. It’s honestly annoying seeing the small percentage of people who play on incorrect versions having such priority over the 1.8 people, that you are willing to do something so insanely wrong such as banning heads.

If you wanted a 1.12 or 1.14 experience, make the server as such, don’t make a 1.8 server that tries to cater to 1.14 players. There are servers on 1.12 and 1.14 that work JUST FINE. Just don’t worry about the wrong version. Even letting people onto the server and playing the maps is enough catering.

If you’re building something, and a certain component doesn’t fit into a spot, you don’t fix that by ramming it in and bending and breaking the contraption. Don’t add horrible regulations just to cater to a version that SHOULD NOT be catered for. It’s hard to contain my anger and frustration that such an idea was approved. Please, rethink your priorities.

Please, NEVER DO THIS AGAIN.
 
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Hussiii

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#2
I agree, but I don't think it's that crazy of an idea tbh.

There are a lot of new players who decided to join manacube parkour without any prior parkour experience just for the fun of it. I doubt any of these players switched to 1.8.9 before joining. I know I didn't when I first joined. In fact, my first ever post on this forum was asking why custom heads lagged me, lmao.

My point is, there are probably hundreds of maps that hundreds of players simply don't ever do bc they have custom heads and these players can't be bothered to change versions, or don't know that changing versions resolves the issue (personally, I thought these blocks were SUPPOSED to be laggy and that was part of the parkour, and I'm sure many others still think this).
I think this is a reason why none of the maps on (I think) the first 3 pages of Easy (which have most global completions) have custom heads in them.

It was also a bit of a hassle to install toggle shift/sprint mods and reinstall FPS mods for 1.8.9 for me personally, and I don't expect any new players who are used to 1.14+ to make the transition and completely change versions every time JUST so they can parkour on this server (I'm the exception, cuz I really like this server so far!)

I know you're probably thinking, "screw new players who gives a f#% about them they can change versions or leave for all I care!" and I totally get it. I for one think servers should be new-player friendly, though, which is why I think mechanics like custom heads lagging players on new versions is a little unfair if you have no idea what the hell is happening.

I don't think custom heads should be banned, but I understand why it was considered. Unpopular opinion, I know, but I like playing the devil's advocate !

@@@@
 

Tas

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#3
View attachment 39345
Thats a step... in the wrong direction. Like you said, I think they shouldn't focus on mixing the versions.
A step in the right direction, rather. No one wants anyone to glitch on heads. We don't want them banned; we want them fixed.
 

Sonic_Raptor

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#4
A step in the right direction, rather. No one wants anyone to glitch on heads. We don't want them banned; we want them fixed.
And for the most part they are fixed? If you find them you should report them so the changes can be applied.
 

Jash

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#5
In my opinion, it's better to cater for players who would rather play on newer versions and 1.8 respectively; this is one of the many ways they can do it and is probably the easiest. Again, as Sonic_Raptor said above, you're always more than welcome to report issues with new updates.

Cheers,
Jash.
 

Quinny

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#6
Thank you zzy for this very informative and important post. I think you made a lot of very good points which I agree with, I think the 1.8 experience is something that we should respect and take more into consideration in the future before making changes. I do think that it will, considering heads should be fixed now for 1.9+ players and more glitchy blocks such as snow will be addressed soon.
I do have to commend Cullan a lot for his attentiveness and continuous efforts to working on fixes for parkour, because heads may have been banned truly if he didn’t find a fix today. I’m glad it was reverted and something else was tried successfully.
This is my reminder to everyone that if you find a glitchy head, please report it to an online staff member by messaging them or using /helpop. There are some heads that the fix may not have worked for that will have to be replaced, so reporting it is really important!
I would rather put in more work as a staff member by finding every head on every map so they can all be replaced than having heads banned for parkour. They’re a very unique block and I’m so, so glad that they were fixed today and the ban was reverted. As a mapper it would have been really frustrating.
 

kxe

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#7
wait what, heads were going to be banned? Excuse me tf-
 

Acrellux

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#9
Uh, I don't like 1.8.9, the water isn't colored depending on the biome and the mouse sensitivity is off and the sky is a weird color and the : ( and ) all look very strange because of the old font.

Uh, if there's a resource pack I can use to make it look 1.16, then uh I would use it. But sensitivity will never be perfect and since I do things with my friends on the latest versions, like on my Realm (which none of you will be playing on lol it's private don't get any ideas), 1.16 is what I'll be sticking with — I will be upset if I can't stick with it so please don't remove 1.16 from Parkour's versions, at least that version
 

GamersDecision

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#10
Uh, I don't like 1.8.9, the water isn't colored depending on the biome and the mouse sensitivity is off and the sky is a weird color and the : ( and ) all look very strange because of the old font.

Uh, if there's a resource pack I can use to make it look 1.16, then uh I would use it. But sensitivity will never be perfect and since I do things with my friends on the latest versions, like on my Realm (which none of you will be playing on lol it's private don't get any ideas), 1.16 is what I'll be sticking with — I will be upset if I can't stick with it so please don't remove 1.16 from Parkour's versions, at least that version
I'm fine with 1.16 staying as long as 1.8 stays as the primary one
You probably don't know how much changes parkour wise between these versions though Acid, which is completely fine :)
 

Cookie Kat

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#11
Uh, I don't like 1.8.9, the water isn't colored depending on the biome and the mouse sensitivity is off and the sky is a weird color and the : ( and ) all look very strange because of the old font.

Uh, if there's a resource pack I can use to make it look 1.16, then uh I would use it. But sensitivity will never be perfect and since I do things with my friends on the latest versions, like on my Realm (which none of you will be playing on lol it's private don't get any ideas), 1.16 is what I'll be sticking with — I will be upset if I can't stick with it so please don't remove 1.16 from Parkour's versions, at least that version
Weird flex but okay
 

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#12
Lots of yall might have different opinions.

I find 1.8 to be the best version for parkouring because Im mostly used to the colors in 1.8 (block textures) and I find it easier to do. With 1.16, yes I know new textures, but the movement has really just not have me be the biggest fan. I do like 1.16 with the new textures and al
l but for me the movement has just annoyed me.
 
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Dutchy1372

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#13
I mean, I barely play on PK and if I do i play 1.13.2

I don’t like going into 1.8 because the sensitivity is terrible in 1.8
 

zzykrkv

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#14
I mean, I barely play on PK and if I do i play 1.13.2

I don’t like going into 1.8 because the sensitivity is terrible in 1.8
Uh, I don't like 1.8.9, the water isn't colored depending on the biome and the mouse sensitivity is off and the sky is a weird color and the : ( and ) all look very strange because of the old font.

Uh, if there's a resource pack I can use to make it look 1.16, then uh I would use it. But sensitivity will never be perfect and since I do things with my friends on the latest versions, like on my Realm (which none of you will be playing on lol it's private don't get any ideas), 1.16 is what I'll be sticking with — I will be upset if I can't stick with it so please don't remove 1.16 from Parkour's versions, at least that version
The reason 1.16 sensitivity is different is because in the newer versions they added 2 options for mouse sensitivity. IN 1.8 raw input is off, but in idk which version raw input can be turned on, and is on by default. This creates a situation where people play on raw input but when they switch to newer versions toe sensitivity is way higher. Fortunately for me, I'm used to 1.8 sensitivity, so I can switch raw input off in 1.16 so the sensitivity doesn't affect me. IMO this was just a bad choice by the developers since it creates issues like this where people can't adapt to different sensitivities.