[IDEA] Increase neutrality cost and upkeep

[Spogger]

The neutrality cost isn't enough. For having the perk of not being able to be sieged, $25 is not enough. It should be at least the same as upkeep, if not more.

The idea of Earth is sieges and PvP for a lot of people, though some people obviously want to build. But the towny plugin came with wars for a reason, and peaceful towns just feel so different from the rest of the gamemode, and having to pay only $25 a day to stay that way is just not enough. I've played many towny servers, and many of them have the peaceful cost a lot higher.

As for the upkeep, and many people will not agree with this, but upkeep's not enough either. In the spawner economy, $100/plot is not enough, as that is almost nothing when people can make $100M/day easily. There should be a scale factor for cost so that bigger towns pay more, but not just in chunk size, but the amount of residents changes the upkeep.

So, let's start by changing the base upkeep to $10k/day per plot, and now let's add these multipliers for these town sizes:
Settlement: 0.75x
Hamlet: 1x
Village: 1.5x
Town: 2x
Large Town: 2.5x
City: 3x
Large City: 3.5x
Metropolis: 4x

What does everyone think?

edit: prices reduced due to pushback

 

[Yokabu]

on the other side. seems 90% of sieges are ghost sieges anyways and noone cares as people just dont see a reason to defend. i do agree but in the end people will straight up pay it than pvp

 

[Beans4lifes]

Also war chests should be more than 7.5k per a plot. Even tho i stay broke most the time the 2m i get for a decent seige aint enough to make me want to keep seiging. i need more motivation

 

[Poppycon]

I think this is great! Sieging should be an integral part of the game, and 25$, which I could make by literally digging up 25 pieces of dirt, to stay siege free seems absurdly low, specially since fishing can reel in around 4k per minute.

 

[Spogger]

bump (is bumping allowed?)

 

[-·=»‡«ﾑ»‡«=·-]

bump (is bumping allowed?)

No

Post automatically merged: Feb 18, 2023

But I completely agree with this it's a small thing but worth it.

 

[SkyDieGame]

bump (is bumping allowed?)

No rules against it as long as it doesn't get spammy.

 

[pkre]

I think that this would hurt the newer players more than the seasoned players so I'm going to have to disagree. Even if it was 1m upkeep per day I would still pay it. Most people like peace and not sieging, the only people that would be affected by this would be those that cannot afford to stay neutral.

It would just keep the poorer people poor and constantly under attack.

 

[Spogger]

I think that this would hurt the newer players more than the seasoned players so I'm going to have to disagree. Even if it was 1m upkeep per day I would still pay it. Most people like peace and not sieging, the only people that would be affected by this would be those that cannot afford to stay neutral.

It would just keep the poorer people poor and constantly under attack.

But it would discourage peacefulness.

Earth is simply too similar to Survival at this point, if you want peace, building, or whatever of that nature, go play Survival, not Earth. The towny siege system exists for a reason and it should be an integral part of the game.

Plus, most towns that would be majorly affected (Large Town and up) tend to be quite rich, as most "poor" players tend to have their towns not surpass the size of Town.

Similarly, neutral towns also tend to be richer cashwise than non-peaceful towns.

Also, as @Poppycon said, fishing would probably be able to fund a peaceful town's upkeep with just about 10 minutes of fishing with the changes I proposed..

 

[ThatNorwegianVal]

The neutrality cost isn't enough. For having the perk of not being able to be sieged, $25 is not enough. It should be at least the same as upkeep, if not more.

The idea of Earth is sieges and PvP for a lot of people, though some people obviously want to build. But the towny plugin came with wars for a reason, and peaceful towns just feel so different from the rest of the gamemode, and having to pay only $25 a day to stay that way is just not enough. I've played many towny servers, and many of them have the peaceful cost a lot higher.

As for the upkeep, and many people will not agree with this, but upkeep's not enough either. In the spawner economy, $100/plot is not enough, as that is almost nothing when people can make $100M/day easily. There should be a scale factor for cost so that bigger towns pay more, but not just in chunk size, but the amount of residents changes the upkeep.

So, let's start by changing the base upkeep to $10k/day per plot, and now let's add these multipliers for these town sizes:
Settlement: 0.75x
Hamlet: 1x
Village: 2x
Town: 3x
Large Town: 4x
City: 5x
Large City: 6x
Metropolis: 7.5x

What does everyone think?

Alright let me put in my 2 cents for this situation.

Town Upkeep
Id like to first start out by saying that Towny Servers almost ALWAYS have Sieges and Wars. Many players want to play on Servers with Towns, Economys and politics. But not EVERYONE wants to deal with being sieged. they just enjoy the idea of Creating a Nation of Builders and Farmers. which im suprised you seem this dull to want to make it harder for Peaceful nations to not be sieged out of Existence, where they have nowhere to "Donate, or Fund" their resources to. A War Nation Leader who is Smart will set up deals with these Nations to either Fund War Nations or to Supply them.

Now onto my second point. No offense undiny, and this doesnt go without respect. but i think your losing your mind just a little. some nations and towns, cant even make 100k a day. let alone 10k PER PLOT. also to mention the Multiplier. OH HECK NO. I will just move to another server if that happens. Because i have around 116 plots. here is the math

116x$10,000 = $1,160,000 PER DAY. Then with your BS multiplier, im a town, so now its x3 so My total PER DAY is $3,480,000 just to continue having a town. Which by the way, i try my absolute best to make even close to $300,000 a day. And many smaler towns just cant handle that kind of Payment.

Neutrality Cost
now for the Neutrality Cost. i will say $25 a day for Neutrality is FILTHY Easy to make. you sell like 32 Stone and boom you cant be sieged. personally think the cost per day should be Raised ALOT. im not talking a MILLION dollars a day. maybe like 10k to 20k per day is fine. the majority of Towns can make that, and i think even less active towns can make it as well. 2 days of good grinding and youve got enough money in your T Bank to last you 2 weeks or whatever to have the ability to go to work and have a good sleep schedule.

Summed Up
you wanting people to pay $10,000 Per PLOT seems like your way of saying "Oh no, theres way to many towns that are rich that havent fallen into ruin that i cant put my fingers all over, lets make the Upkeep a BS price so i can get Richer and afford to dominate the Server"
i dont mind paying a LITTLE bit more than what we pay now, but bro, that is WAY to much for Larger towns. Who by the way probably dont have enough people or Pay to Win Players to be able to Sell SVAs or Grind out a Whole chunk for 3mill to 10mil a day. Plus alos that leaves no room for Economic growth.

My Message to undiny
Its hard enough for me to have a town this big, considering i dont have enough daily active people to fill even a $Million a day. And clearly this Forum post goes to show you know little about Economic Growth of Nations on a PTW server. and i think i can speak for ALL Smaller or Medium Sized nations when i say HELL NO to your horrible reccomendation. We dont want you Ganking all of our stuff through sieges. and we sure as hell dont want to deal with Spending 15 hours a day trying to grind out enough not to fall into ruins.

@bruhwhymyigntaken

 

[Bunni]

The neutrality cost isn't enough. For having the perk of not being able to be sieged, $25 is not enough. It should be at least the same as upkeep, if not more.

The idea of Earth is sieges and PvP for a lot of people, though some people obviously want to build. But the towny plugin came with wars for a reason, and peaceful towns just feel so different from the rest of the gamemode, and having to pay only $25 a day to stay that way is just not enough. I've played many towny servers, and many of them have the peaceful cost a lot higher.

As for the upkeep, and many people will not agree with this, but upkeep's not enough either. In the spawner economy, $100/plot is not enough, as that is almost nothing when people can make $100M/day easily. There should be a scale factor for cost so that bigger towns pay more, but not just in chunk size, but the amount of residents changes the upkeep.

So, let's start by changing the base upkeep to $10k/day per plot, and now let's add these multipliers for these town sizes:
Settlement: 0.75x
Hamlet: 1x
Village: 2x
Town: 3x
Large Town: 4x
City: 5x
Large City: 6x
Metropolis: 7.5x

What does everyone think?

I agree with Val, at the moment it's pretty fair, even with having a mix of peaceful and siege towns.
Although did you know apparently it is allowed to "siege" peaceful towns ^-^ aka Gordon ;)

 

[pkre]

I agree with val as well. I don't think increasing peaceful costs will improve the economy or server quality at all. Maybe for the pay to win players but not anyone else. It would be a huge barrier to entry for new players and towns.

 

[Spogger]

Alright let me put in my 2 cents for this situation.

Town Upkeep
Id like to first start out by saying that Towny Servers almost ALWAYS have Sieges and Wars. Many players want to play on Servers with Towns, Economys and politics. But not EVERYONE wants to deal with being sieged. they just enjoy the idea of Creating a Nation of Builders and Farmers. which im suprised you seem this dull to want to make it harder for Peaceful nations to not be sieged out of Existence, where they have nowhere to "Donate, or Fund" their resources to. A War Nation Leader who is Smart will set up deals with these Nations to either Fund War Nations or to Supply them.

Now onto my second point. No offense undiny, and this doesnt go without respect. but i think your losing your mind just a little. some nations and towns, cant even make 100k a day. let alone 10k PER PLOT. also to mention the Multiplier. OH HECK NO. I will just move to another server if that happens. Because i have around 116 plots. here is the math

116x$10,000 = $1,160,000 PER DAY. Then with your BS multiplier, im a town, so now its x3 so My total PER DAY is $3,480,000 just to continue having a town. Which by the way, i try my absolute best to make even close to $300,000 a day. And many smaler towns just cant handle that kind of Payment.

Neutrality Cost
now for the Neutrality Cost. i will say $25 a day for Neutrality is FILTHY Easy to make. you sell like 32 Stone and boom you cant be sieged. personally think the cost per day should be Raised ALOT. im not talking a MILLION dollars a day. maybe like 10k to 20k per day is fine. the majority of Towns can make that, and i think even less active towns can make it as well. 2 days of good grinding and youve got enough money in your T Bank to last you 2 weeks or whatever to have the ability to go to work and have a good sleep schedule.

Summed Up
you wanting people to pay $10,000 Per PLOT seems like your way of saying "Oh no, theres way to many towns that are rich that havent fallen into ruin that i cant put my fingers all over, lets make the Upkeep a BS price so i can get Richer and afford to dominate the Server"
i dont mind paying a LITTLE bit more than what we pay now, but bro, that is WAY to much for Larger towns. Who by the way probably dont have enough people or Pay to Win Players to be able to Sell SVAs or Grind out a Whole chunk for 3mill to 10mil a day. Plus alos that leaves no room for Economic growth.

My Message to undiny
Its hard enough for me to have a town this big, considering i dont have enough daily active people to fill even a $Million a day. And clearly this Forum post goes to show you know little about Economic Growth of Nations on a PTW server. and i think i can speak for ALL Smaller or Medium Sized nations when i say HELL NO to your horrible reccomendation. We dont want you Ganking all of our stuff through sieges. and we sure as hell dont want to deal with Spending 15 hours a day trying to grind out enough not to fall into ruins.

@bruhwhymyigntaken

Val, though I admit that your point(s) have some validity, new players are recommended to join an already-existing town. Why is that? Idk but if the idea I gave was implemented then that would be a reason. Joining a preexisting town would give new players a chance to make more money by using farm areas that towns typically have for their players to build grinders.

Additionally, I have found there's a rough correlation between peaceful towns being wealthier and non-peaceful towns being poorer (money wise at the very least). Idk why this is but there's a correlation so clearly somethings going on.

Plus, grinders can very quickly build up. After all, if you can get just one good pull from a crate, Mythic or promotional crate, that would end up as enough money to make a decently sized grinder if you were to sell it.

If you're so unlucky that you don't pull anything good from crates EVER, you can always go kill someone in the wild with items of some value.

"oh but I don't wanna risk my items hunting someone in the wild" /map. If someone comes near you, log off until they go away.

@ThatNorwegianVal
edit: you saying this: "Oh no, theres way to many towns that are rich that havent fallen into ruin that i cant put my fingers all over, lets make the Upkeep a BS price so i can get Richer and afford to dominate the Server" is pretty stupid considering the fact that i can't even afford the upkeep i proposed long-term

 

[Bunni]

Additionally, I have found there's a rough correlation between peaceful towns being wealthier and non-peaceful towns being poorer (money wise at the very least). Idk why this is but there's a correlation so clearly somethings going on.

We do just be grinding more it seems

 

[UrDadKenan]

Suiii

 

[ThatNorwegianVal]

Val, though I admit that your point(s) have some validity, new players are recommended to join an already-existing town. Why is that? Idk but if the idea I gave was implemented then that would be a reason. Joining a preexisting town would give new players a chance to make more money by using farm areas that towns typically have for their players to build grinders.

Additionally, I have found there's a rough correlation between peaceful towns being wealthier and non-peaceful towns being poorer (money wise at the very least). Idk why this is but there's a correlation so clearly somethings going on.

Plus, grinders can very quickly build up. After all, if you can get just one good pull from a crate, Mythic or promotional crate, that would end up as enough money to make a decently sized grinder if you were to sell it.

If you're so unlucky that you don't pull anything good from crates EVER, you can always go kill someone in the wild with items of some value.

"oh but I don't wanna risk my items hunting someone in the wild" /map. If someone comes near you, log off until they go away.

@ThatNorwegianVal
edit: you saying this: "Oh no, theres way to many towns that are rich that havent fallen into ruin that i cant put my fingers all over, lets make the Upkeep a BS price so i can get Richer and afford to dominate the Server" is pretty stupid considering the fact that i can't even afford the upkeep i proposed long-term

Response
If you say its pretty stupid and you cant afford it long term with your OWN proposal then i again state. This clearly shows you know nothinga about the Economy. This proposal needs to die. im sorry to say this but its actually rude af. New players should have the ability to make their own town. If new players want to join your town then they will join a pre-existing town. my thing is this, i joined and made my own town, my own nation, and have my own members. If what you are proposing happens. ALL THE TOWNS ON THE SERVER will collapse eventually. Where will the Veterans be then??? Nowhere, because there wont be a town aged longer than 5 months. you have to think of the long term Undiny. People will stop playing because the Grinding leaves no room for our ACTUAL lives.


TO EVERYONE
If you enjoy playing on a server casually and want the ability to relax rather than grind then understand this. I have been playing towny servers since they came out, ive also been on Minecraft since it released. i have never run into a person requesting a rule change as reckless as this. and i ask you to put an end to it. This is another plore to change the ideals of what makes manacube great. The ability to own your own town. and undiny you have to understand this. you contradict yourself. and according to your OWN message above. This doesnt benefit you or anyone else either

Post automatically merged: Mar 13, 2023

Val, though I admit that your point(s) have some validity, new players are recommended to join an already-existing town. Why is that? Idk but if the idea I gave was implemented then that would be a reason. Joining a preexisting town would give new players a chance to make more money by using farm areas that towns typically have for their players to build grinders.

Additionally, I have found there's a rough correlation between peaceful towns being wealthier and non-peaceful towns being poorer (money wise at the very least). Idk why this is but there's a correlation so clearly somethings going on.

Plus, grinders can very quickly build up. After all, if you can get just one good pull from a crate, Mythic or promotional crate, that would end up as enough money to make a decently sized grinder if you were to sell it.

If you're so unlucky that you don't pull anything good from crates EVER, you can always go kill someone in the wild with items of some value.

"oh but I don't wanna risk my items hunting someone in the wild" /map. If someone comes near you, log off until they go away.

@ThatNorwegianVal
edit: you saying this: "Oh no, theres way to many towns that are rich that havent fallen into ruin that i cant put my fingers all over, lets make the Upkeep a BS price so i can get Richer and afford to dominate the Server" is pretty stupid considering the fact that i can't even afford the upkeep i proposed long-term

My Missed Reply
"If you're so unlucky that you don't pull anything good from crates EVER, you can always go kill someone in the wild with items of some value."

People feel free to reply to this. But i dont think there are alot of PVP inclined People. I MYSELF use to be UNBELIEVABLY cracked at PVP. but when i turned 18 joined the Navy and GOT A LIFE. i didnt have time to focus on 5,000 hours to stay good at PVP. so i am Terribly bad at PVP now, i can hold my own for 2 minutes. then im dead. so no this wont work.

My message to Undiny the 2nd time
What about people like me? who arent good at PVP. What are we supposed to do? Lose our towns? join the much larger toxic nations and just murder people for their loot? NO i dont think thats the right path. i think alot of people dont randomly kill for loot like you do, and just want the ability to grind, farm, and build cool stuff.

 

[Spogger]

Response
If you say its pretty stupid and you cant afford it long term with your OWN proposal then i again state. This clearly shows you know nothinga about the Economy. This proposal needs to die. im sorry to say this but its actually rude af. New players should have the ability to make their own town. If new players want to join your town then they will join a pre-existing town. my thing is this, i joined and made my own town, my own nation, and have my own members. If what you are proposing happens. ALL THE TOWNS ON THE SERVER will collapse eventually. Where will the Veterans be then??? Nowhere, because there wont be a town aged longer than 5 months. you have to think of the long term Undiny. People will stop playing because the Grinding leaves no room for our ACTUAL lives.


TO EVERYONE
If you enjoy playing on a server casually and want the ability to relax rather than grind then understand this. I have been playing towny servers since they came out, ive also been on Minecraft since it released. i have never run into a person requesting a rule change as reckless as this. and i ask you to put an end to it. This is another plore to change the ideals of what makes manacube great. The ability to own your own town. and undiny you have to understand this. you contradict yourself. and according to your OWN message above. This doesnt benefit you or anyone else either

Post automatically merged: Mar 13, 2023

My Missed Reply
"If you're so unlucky that you don't pull anything good from crates EVER, you can always go kill someone in the wild with items of some value."

People feel free to reply to this. But i dont think there are alot of PVP inclined People. I MYSELF use to be UNBELIEVABLY cracked at PVP. but when i turned 18 joined the Navy and GOT A LIFE. i didnt have time to focus on 5,000 hours to stay good at PVP. so i am Terribly bad at PVP now, i can hold my own for 2 minutes. then im dead. so no this wont work.

My message to Undiny the 2nd time
What about people like me? who arent good at PVP. What are we supposed to do? Lose our towns? join the much larger toxic nations and just murder people for their loot? NO i dont think thats the right path. i think alot of people dont randomly kill for loot like you do, and just want the ability to grind, farm, and build cool stuff.

Hey, so though I can again understand where you are coming from, you have to realize that when people can make millions and millions in a day, if those people quit and don't delete their towns, and then deposit loads of money into their bank, those towns are gonna be around a VERY, VERY, long time. And although ManaCube doesn't like it when I mention other servers, but look at EarthMC's map on their oldest server, Terra Nova.

I can guarantee you that many of these towns are 1-man towns who just log on once every month to avoid getting shut down. What is this crowding the result of? EarthMC has no upkeep. When considering how much money spawners make here on Mana, upkeep is virtually non-existent. This is what I am afraid of, crowding like this might happen and then new players are gonna have problems getting a town where it's desirable, so either way with my "BS multiplier" or with them simply letting the server have virtually no upkeep, and as a result, stuff like this might happen. I mean, EarthMC Terra Nova WAS consistently pulling 200 players, and this happened, sure, Mana Earth only pulls about 60, but considering that Earth may be without a reset for even longer than last season, this still could happen.

Additionally, I can say fairly confidently that many leaders of the super-rich and super-big towns do very much have lives. The reason these people have so much money is that they get an account on a lightweight console client to afk 24/7 and be making money without using too much CPU or GPU space. It's possible to be rich while playing only a couple hours MAXIMUM every day.

As for you saying that me not being able to afford my own proposal is bad, this is literally because I do not have console client or an alt account, if I did, I definitely could, as could almost anybody, because farms exponentially become better and better.
@ThatNorwegianVal

 

[ThatNorwegianVal]

Hey, so though I can again understand where you are coming from, you have to realize that when people can make millions and millions in a day, if those people quit and don't delete their towns, and then deposit loads of money into their bank, those towns are gonna be around a VERY, VERY, long time. And although ManaCube doesn't like it when I mention other servers, but look at EarthMC's map on their oldest server, Terra Nova.

View attachment 66558

I can guarantee you that many of these towns are 1-man towns who just log on once every month to avoid getting shut down. What is this crowding the result of? EarthMC has no upkeep. When considering how much money spawners make here on Mana, upkeep is virtually non-existent. This is what I am afraid of, crowding like this might happen and then new players are gonna have problems getting a town where it's desirable, so either way with my "BS multiplier" or with them simply letting the server have virtually no upkeep, and as a result, stuff like this might happen. I mean, EarthMC Terra Nova WAS consistently pulling 200 players, and this happened, sure, Mana Earth only pulls about 60, but considering that Earth may be without a reset for even longer than last season, this still could happen.

Additionally, I can say fairly confidently that many leaders of the super-rich and super-big towns do very much have lives. The reason these people have so much money is that they get an account on a lightweight console client to afk 24/7 and be making money without using too much CPU or GPU space. It's possible to be rich while playing only a couple hours MAXIMUM every day.

As for you saying that me not being able to afford my own proposal is bad, this is literally because I do not have console client or an alt account, if I did, I definitely could, as could almost anybody, because farms exponentially become better and better.
@ThatNorwegianVal

My 3rd Response
once again is Emplore you to take a look at the economic Situation on the server. People may make Millions. CERTAIN TOWNS. Who have the ability to get Lucky Crates, or PVP their way to victory. But not every nation does.

If the server had your system on it. it would be like this.

1. I make a town.

2. i have to pay a boat load of money to keep it once i get more people and more land.

3. i make a nation. but remember... i have to pay a boatload of money...

4. im not making any extra money because im constantly stressing to pay your stupid upkeep. i cant pay my towns extra money. giving them no incentives to stay with my nation.

5. My nation falls into ruins or never grows, because war nations like yours wil get all the money from sieging smaller, less rich, helpless nations and towns. OH, but then even YOUR OWN town will fall into ruins.

6. Why? because of your tax. Then what was the point of all the Sieges? What was the point of having a larger town? Why not just remain as 1 or 2 persons in a town with no nation. it would be alot easier then spending 18 to 24 hours a day to grind out your reckless upkeep.

7. People start leaving the server, cause theres no variety. No large nations. no small nations. no nations that exist longer than a week...

8. Boom youve just killed a server because you dont understand a single dang thing about these kinds of Servers. What is your point? its such a stupid idea i just dont understand your logic? Yah lets raise a BS upkeep and kill the server all because i cant siege every single town.

9. god i really hope for the servers sake that the staff really listen to what i said above. Every server i have ever played on that has Raised the upkeep prices alot have died within weeks. and if not in weeks then a few months. Which then you are to blame for Robbing the staff of the Ability to make more Money. to be able to provide players with a good Balanced Server, where sieges happen and towns can be peaceful, and where adults and other people can afford to go to work and come back. (Who may i remind you Adults make up 90% of the people who pay for the server ranks like Elite and Patreon, Patreon+ and even some of the smaller ranks) They wont want to spend money if there town is destroyed. and some of them will just refuse to live under someone who gets their kicks off sieging PVPless towns and Nations.

P.S. Most other people dont have Console Clients and other BS too. which im sure you can put 2+2 together and realise taht arguement wise you just shot yourself in the foot

GO set up trade with a Peaceful Nation and Town, they have alot of money and im sure if you offer them something, im sure they will be more then have to fund you

 

[Bunni]

Mayb invest in some alts

 

[ThatNorwegianVal]

Mayb invest in some alts

Invest in some alts? Do you know how much i make? i sure as hell dont make enough money to confortably "Invest" in Alts.

Bunni im hoping your not starting to agree with Undiny. i mean its super reckless

Post automatically merged: Mar 14, 2023

Mayb invest in some alts

I live pay check to paycheck and my grandparents on occasions have to help me with Food.

Post automatically merged: Mar 14, 2023

Mayb invest in some alts

Oh one more thing. because i dont have enough money to waste on a Minecraft server.im just not allowed to own a town? i have to just live in someone elses town for that one to fall too? no i refuse