Manacube has a serious problem...

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Mr. Raine Flowers

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#1
I've been talking with @Cookie Kat for quite a while now. We made a post about this in the past, I've messaged @Dacon about it (no response btw), and I feel like nobody except cares about this remotely.

The r slur is not considered a slur by manacube. It is merely considered disrespect. Disrespect. A word so harmful to many people, children, teens such as myself, adults even, is not seen as hatespeech. Many people, including Stormy and I, have been called this. Online and in real life. Why? Because we were born different. We get shamed for something out of our control. And I've seen so many people use it on here. This server used to be my favorite place to hang out. I looked up to Dacon. I wanted to become a staff member myself. But the amount of hate disabled and neurodivergent people get on here is disgusting. Until Dacon does something. I will continue to fight for what I know is right.

The main problem is that the staff should take ableisim more seriously. The amount of ableist jokes is gross. The all happens mainly on the discord. Because most of the discord members are older teens, who think this kind of stuff is cool and edgy. Also probably because staff aren't as strict on the discord.

Here is a screenshot taken around a year ago by my absolutely amazing friend, @Cookie Kat. I will not be censoring the names, as they deserve to be publicly exposed.
unknown.png

(if staff would like me to censor or delete it, I will do so)

So I have a proposal. I don't think many players will support this, but do not spend any money on this server. At all. Until Dacon does something. No buying cubits, crates, ranks, anything. And put #bantherslur in your signature, nickname, anything you can to help support us. If I get banned or warned for this, that just shows more proof that Dacon is scared of people challenging him.
 
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minerent

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#3
dunno how i feel abt this, doubt enough people would boycot tbh, gl tho <3
 

Mr. Raine Flowers

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#4
I started a conversation in the discord server and got called the slur while staff sat there and ignored it (yes they were actively chatting)
 

minerent

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#5
I started a conversation in the discord server and got called the slur while staff sat there and ignored it (yes they were actively chatting)
alright staff may have been present Lav mentioned she cared for you cause but mod and mod+ do not control the rules but they have to follow them
 

Cookie Kat

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#6
What do you expect though, that's why I left the Discord in general. Before I was perm banned it was an amazing place to hang out, chat with friends. Now it's just a toxic cringe place where people actually think they're cool lol. I am also having difficulties with the staff but whatever, they have a life I suppose.
Honestly, that was happening long before I got banned from the discord. When I was still on the discord, I hardly ever saw staff talking unless they got pinged at which point you'd be called out for mini-modding if you were the person who pinged.
 

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#7
Hello.

I understand that this is an important issue to many people on Manacube. I myself agree with some of your points made on this thread. Staff members have discussed this issue in the past, and if we feel that this rule needs to be changed, the change will happen.

What I, along with other staff members do not agree with, is your use of this slur in your post. The rules are clear that this word is disrespect, and you even acknowledged this rule in your post, so I am unsure as to why you have mentioned it now.

I would also like to point out that staff members try their absolute best to keep toxic conversations out of our communities (forums, discord and in game). Instead of complaining about it here, feel free to create a staff report if you feel that a certain staff member is not meeting their expectations.

Cheers,
Pesto.
 

Hallowqueen

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#8
Hello,

I would like to drop my opinion here, as I have spoken with Echo/StormySkies about this recently, and feel I should contribute this to the discussion.

For starters, I would like to make it clear I will remain unbiased, but that I would agree with the “R-Slur” being treated as such. If I remember correctly, there was a point in time it was being punished as hate-speech if it was used by a player, to demean, degrade and insult another. This just goes to show that nothing is ever set in stone. We as staff volunteer our time to help ensure the server is a safe and welcoming environment for everyone involved - although we moderate, we also play and engage with the community, and the last thing we want is upset and hurt within said community.

Second of all, I think it’s important to keep in mind that Dacon and Pizza are quite busy; especially at the moment with merging two networks, working on the release and reset of Survival, while also having bugs reported directly to them left, right and centre - along with their IRL commitments, this is a lot of work. In an ideal world, Dacon would be able to respond to your message - however, he already gets *several* a day and deals with the aforementioned situations; and this is why they hire staff.

As much as Helpers, Mods, Mod+ and SrMods may agree with this point, it is ultimately an Admin and up discussion that they will need to reconsider. One thing I would certainly like to highlight again, is that none of the rules are ever set in stone. We are constantly evolving and updating to be more inclusive, more accepting and to ensure this network is a safe space for everyone.

As unfortunate as it is to see players upset and being left feeling excluded and as though they are allowed to be called these things and get off with just a slap on the wrist so-to-speak, I don’t believe boycotting the server and refusing to spend money will have much of an affect on the rule change. As staff, all we can do is have discussions about it, listen to alternative viewpoints and suggest for admins to have a prolonged discussion about it as they have more experience. To agree with Pesto, I believe it is very counter-intuitive to have used the slur you are advocating against in your post, and would like to thank you for removing it.

Have a nice day/night!
 

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#9
As Hallow said, the R-slur used to be a more serious offense. Some players may also remember when saying the N-word was not punishable. Rules change frequently, and hopefully the opinions of both long-time players and staff volunteers will have an impact in this case.

PS. There are better ways to reach Dakota than through a Discord DM out of the blue. Don't be surprised that he didn't answer.
 

Cookie Kat

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#10
As Hallow said, the R-slur used to be a more serious offense. Some players may also remember when saying the N-word was not punishable. Rules change frequently, and hopefully the opinions of both long-time players and staff volunteers will have an impact in this case.

PS. There are better ways to reach Dakota than through a Discord DM out of the blue. Don't be surprised that he didn't answer.
yes, when I started playing it was okay to say the “soft n word.” I definitely remember that, though I never really understood it… I feel like it’s something that I could have mentioned before- I definitely believe that with time things can change and Manacube can be a more safe and inclusive place for everyone!
 

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#11
I really don't know how to feel about this.
as much as I hate the slur and want it to be censored, I have to agree with the mods here.
I still totally support the fact that you want it to be censored.
I will not be buying anything.
 

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#13
My following explanation is in no way related to my beliefs or opinions on this matter but only looking to try and shine a spotlight on what seems to be the gray area.

While this is no excuse to be using this word, it has definitely become less sensitized and has become more of a slang word in today's language, replacing current terms and being a more extreme version of some insulting words some may call others when they are upset. While calling someone this or using it to describe something is still disrespectful and is punished for, it is not absolutely unacceptable in today's world to use it as a describing word, which is its most common form, rather than a directed derogatory slur in which case more extreme measures may be taken.
I believe if the admins were to put the rule back in place for a community this size, an unknowing new player may say the word and be immediately muted for something that is semi-commonly not thought of as actual hate speech and be drawn away rather than informed of the severity of it first.

I whole-heartedly apologize to any victims of the word who may have been called it on our network and I promise our staff do want to protect you the best we can, many if not all of us are full supporters of everyone affected and you can always reach out for help.
 

Mr. Raine Flowers

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#14
My following explanation is in no way related to my beliefs or opinions on this matter but only looking to try and shine a spotlight on what seems to be the gray area.

While this is no excuse to be using this word, it has definitely become less sensitized and has become more of a slang word in today's language, replacing current terms and being a more extreme version of some insulting words some may call others when they are upset. While calling someone this or using it to describe something is still disrespectful and is punished for, it is not absolutely unacceptable in today's world to use it as a describing word, which is its most common form, rather than a directed derogatory slur in which case more extreme measures may be taken.
I believe if the admins were to put the rule back in place for a community this size, an unknowing new player may say the word and be immediately muted for something that is semi-commonly not thought of as actual hate speech and be drawn away rather than informed of the severity of it first.

I whole-heartedly apologize to any victims of the word who may have been called it on our network and I promise our staff do want to protect you the best we can, many if not all of us are full supporters of everyone affected and you can always reach out for help.
It would only be a mute and they would learn not to do it again, though its pretty common knowledge not to say slurs. And it would be filtered anyways.
 

Cookie Kat

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#15
That’s the other issue I have, supposedly the word is supposed to be censored but I’ve seen it used a couple times without being censored at all. If it was supposed to be censored then it’s a bug… however in my conversations a while back none of the staff I spoke to were really able to give me a straight answer.
 

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#16
I believe if the admins were to put the rule back in place for a community this size, an unknowing new player may say the word and be immediately muted for something that is semi-commonly not thought of as actual hate speech and be drawn away rather than informed of the severity of it first.
When people join and instantly spam the N-word, other slurs, or even common cuss words, they aren't instantly muted - what they say is censored. We just want the r-slur to be added to the blacklist.
 

Cookie Kat

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#17
Alright, so I just wanted to put a quick disclaimer to clear up any possible confusion. I strongly believe the r slur isn't appropriate and shouldn't be used AT ALL whether you are referring to yourself or not. It shouldn't be used as a joke either, as I explained in my suggestion post on the forums. However, I am not here to change what people believe, I am only here to express my opinion.

I believe I went over this in the post I made in the suggestions section of the forums. No one should be upfront punished for saying the r-slur ONCE. If it were added to the blacklist it should only be punishable IF the player continues to try and evade the filter after being warned. I believe that the blacklist and staff warning should be enough to inform people that the r slur is not appropriate and will not be tolerated on Manacube. I appreciate that the staff recognize that the r slur is hurtful to many individuals, as both me and laney have explicitly expressed; however, we believe that how the staff handle the usage of the r slur is just as important. Currently, it's only a mute for disrespect which at minimum is 30 minutes long. If it were changed to hate speech, players would be muted for 3 hours minimum. It isn't just a matter of censoring the r slur, it's also a matter of taking into consideration how the r slur has had and still to this day negatively impacts many individuals within the disability community.
 
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Milk

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#18
I've been talking with @Cookie Kat for quite a while now. We made a post about this in the past, I've messaged @Dacon about it (no response btw), and I feel like nobody except cares about this remotely.

The r slur is not considered a slur by manacube. It is merely considered disrespect. Disrespect. A word so harmful to many people, children, teens such as myself, adults even, is not seen as hatespeech. Many people, including Stormy and I, have been called this. Online and in real life. Why? Because we were born different. We get shamed for something out of our control. And I've seen so many people use it on here. This server used to be my favorite place to hang out. I looked up to Dacon. I wanted to become a staff member myself. But the amount of hate disabled and neurodivergent people get on here is disgusting. Until Dacon does something. I will continue to fight for what I know is right.

The main problem is that the staff should take ableisim more seriously. The amount of ableist jokes is gross. The all happens mainly on the discord. Because most of the discord members are older teens, who think this kind of stuff is cool and edgy. Also probably because staff aren't as strict on the discord.

Here is a screenshot taken around a year ago by my absolutely amazing friend, @Cookie Kat. I will not be censoring the names, as they deserve to be publicly exposed.
View attachment 50352
(if staff would like me to censor or delete it, I will do so)

So I have a proposal. I don't think many players will support this, but do not spend any money on this server. At all. Until Dacon does something. No buying cubits, crates, ranks, anything. And put #bantherslur in your signature, nickname, anything you can to help support us. If I get banned or warned for this, that just shows more proof that Dacon is scared of people challenging him.
imo i dont see why it matters if people use the r slur in a disrespectful way and personaly like many others on the server dont think it is either and as someone who is neurodivergent i think i do have a say in weather it is or not. Many people think you shouldnt be punished for using a word that has grown alot since its first use in the mid 1400s. If you are punishing over a minor word many believe isnt offensive and ppl who are neurodivergent like myself dont aswell i see the future of manacubes banned words being alot longer and sensitive. Obviously there are words on the list players shouldnt use and i like many others support that but players shouldnt be punished for a minor word. There needs to be a stop on word usage having a punishment and i believe it should stop at the r slur
 

Cookie Kat

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#19
imo i dont see why it matters if people use the r slur in a disrespectful way and personaly like many others on the server dont think it is either and as someone who is neurodivergent i think i do have a say in weather it is or not. Many people think you shouldnt be punished for using a word that has grown alot since its first use in the mid 1400s. If you are punishing over a minor word many believe isnt offensive and ppl who are neurodivergent like myself dont aswell i see the future of manacubes banned words being alot longer and sensitive. Obviously there are words on the list players shouldnt use and i like many others support that but players shouldnt be punished for a minor word. There needs to be a stop on word usage having a punishment and i believe it should stop at the r slur
If you don't have an issue with being called the slur or using it then that's your choice and that's completely valid. However, both me and Laney are not comfortable with people using the word. I know that others share the same sentiment as well. One time on islands, someone used the r slur and a bunch of players asked the person to not say the word again. This just goes to show that while some may not perceive it as something that should be punishable, others do find it quite offensive and disrespectful. In any case, I hope Manacube does make strides to crack down on ableism as it isn't something that should be tolerated.

At the same time, I definitely can see where you're coming from- people don't want to be punished for "small things." But everyone has their own idea of what "small things" means. In some cultures, it's common to say certain words that may be not perceived as curses in that culture but in another, it would be highly offensive. I feel that Manacube should be a place where everyone feels safe and respected, if that means making the r slur hate speech, then others should respect that sentiment. You by no means have to agree with it, but I hope you can understand and respect where we are coming from.

That being said, I do really appreciate what you've said- while I don't necessarily agree with your opinion I do realize that everyone has their own experience with being neurodivergent. We all have our preferences- and if you don't mind the r slur being used, that's completely fine. I hope that we can find a way to compromise- so that people like me and Laney feel that we are being respected but also where people who share similar sentiments as you don't feel like you're being silenced. By no means was it my intention to make anyone feel like they are being silenced, I push myself to see the value in looking at both sides of an argument. If there's anything else you wish to add feel free to do so.
 
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