Parkour - Player Judges

[JakeNoot]

I believe that the server should give players the ability to become a map judge on the parkour server.
Here's why:


Everyone who's ever submitted a map knows that, when they do, it can take up to a month or even longer for a staff member (map judge) to respond. Its understandable that staff aren't always able to be on, let alone staff who have the judge rank, but it still takes away a lot of excitement from players and even makes them anxious when they submit a map and see it hasn't been accepted or denied very quick. To prevent this from happening with any player who submits a map, I believe it would be very beneficial to the server and players to give players the ability to apply (with some requirements to be met*, of course) to become a map judge on the parkourse server. It would be a very fun thing for players to judge maps, along with being beneficial to both the players and server to have maps judged quicker and more efficiently!

*Some requirements for the position could be:
-Mapper rank to assure judges know what to look for in a map
-Age requirement to assure a mature and non-biased judging of the maps
-Time spent on the server to assure judges know what a "good map" looks like


I hope you all like my idea! Leave other suggestions, things I could add, and other feedback below!

Cheers,
JakeNoot

 

[hoju]

This has my vote. Due to the lack of staff judges, there's a huge back load of unseen maps that could be done quickly with more hands. The requirements seem sound and would make sure they're quality map judges. Hope this can be seen by more people!

 

[Shinxray]

This suggestion has already been done a lot in the past (Even by me), and there is some good reason why we can't give "Map Judge" to everybody : (It's litterally the answer from EmmaLouise when I've made the same suggestion has you and I think it's pretty accurate) https://prntscr.com/kcsys2

 

[hoju]

This suggestion has already been done a lot in the past (Even by me), and there is some good reason why we can't give "Map Judge" to everybody : (It's litterally the answer from EmmaLouise when I've made the same suggestion has you and I think it's pretty accurate) https://prntscr.com/kcsys2

Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like there's a pretty easy solution to this. A map judge shouldn't require many permissions to get their job done. As the post says, only management+ can add maps so why can't the map judge just approve maps and send them to management+ to take a look at. If the ability to accept map requires in-game permissions only usable by staff members, why not create a new role that has only those specified permissions. I may be wrong, especially since I don't know the permissions needed by map judges, but it doesn't sound like too hard of a fix. It would definitely be worth the effort and time.

 

[kroro1]

Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like there's a pretty easy solution to this. A map judge shouldn't require many permissions to get their job done. As the post says, only management+ can add maps so why can't the map judge just approve maps and send them to management+ to take a look at. If the ability to accept map requires in-game permissions only usable by staff members, why not create a new role that has only those specified permissions. I may be wrong, especially since I don't know the permissions needed by map judges, but it doesn't sound like too hard of a fix. It would definitely be worth the effort and time.

Yeah I agree, why not just give them the power to accept/deny maps but not actually add them. You would just need to be able to give them the perm to close threads

 

[Shinxray]

Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like there's a pretty easy solution to this. A map judge shouldn't require many permissions to get their job done. As the post says, only management+ can add maps so why can't the map judge just approve maps and send them to management+ to take a look at. If the ability to accept map requires in-game permissions only usable by staff members, why not create a new role that has only those specified permissions. I may be wrong, especially since I don't know the permissions needed by map judges, but it doesn't sound like too hard of a fix. It would definitely be worth the effort and time.

You didn't get it, you need perks that only mod (even higher) can have to judge maps, like closing/moving thread on the forum or breaking blocks on maps which are not ours, and the best way to have the confidence of a map judge is to give map judge to a parkour mod. Map judge can't also add maps, this part was for an other idea that I put which he didn't put, so just skip this part.

 

[kroro1]

You didn't get it, you need perks that only mod (even higher) can have to judge maps, like closing/moving thread on the forum or breaking blocks on maps which are not ours, and the best way to have the confidence of a map judge is to give map judge to a parkour mod. Map judge can't also add maps, this part was for an other idea that I put which he didn't put, so just skip this part.

I feel like making a seperate role that allows you to only close/move threads from the map submission section would be to hard to create. And you don't need to give them perms to break blocks.

 

[hoju]

You didn't get it, you need perks that only mod (even higher) can have to judge maps, like closing/moving thread on the forum or breaking blocks on maps which are not ours, and the best way to have the confidence of a map judge is to give map judge to a parkour mod. Map judge can't also add maps, this part was for an other idea that I put which he didn't put, so just skip this part.

I feel like making a seperate role that allows you to only close/move threads from the map submission section would be to hard to create. And you don't need to give them perms to break blocks.

Okay, I understand now what you meant about certain perks that only mods can have, but as Kroro1 said, they don't need the ability to break blocks on other plots, it's not their map and should not be up to them to break blocks, they're just to judge. Also, if I'm correctly assuming that the forum is a xenforo site, it is probably too much work or may be impossible to create a role that has access to only one section, so why not leave that to the management? As I see it, the root of the problem, and what the original post was trying to solve was the lack of maps being judged and the back load of all the maps being submitted. And I feel like this problem could be fixed if we worked around it. I probably should be making a new suggestion thread for this now, but I think that then the responsibilities of a map judge should be changed. They can be a sub-sect of the Manacube Team that works directly with parkour server, but aren't directly affiliated with the staff team. They're only responsibility would be to check maps in the map submissions sections and if the map is up to their standard, they send it to the staff team so that the thread can be accepted and then the map be added by management. If the map falls short, they can just direct the thread to a staff member who can then reject the map. This would increase the efficiency of the map judging process and lighten the load of the few map judges we do have. Of course this would require the map judging application process to be strict, but in my opinion, it would be better than leaving the problem as is. Feel free to correct me or suggest some other things to add on to what I said, I'm just trying to see if there's a possible solution to the problem at hand.

 

[JakeNoot]

They can be a sub-sect of the Manacube Team that works directly with parkour server, but aren't directly affiliated with the staff team. They're only responsibility would be to check maps in the map submissions sections and if the map is up to their standard, they send it to the staff team so that the thread can be accepted and then the map be added by management. If the map falls short, they can just direct the thread to a staff member who can then reject the map. This would increase the efficiency of the map judging process and lighten the load of the few map judges we do have. Of course this would require the map judging application process to be strict, but in my opinion, it would be better than leaving the problem as is. Feel free to correct me or suggest some other things to add on to what I said, I'm just trying to see if there's a possible solution to the problem at hand.

This is what I’m trying to have implemented. Thanks for your input!

 

[Shinxray]

Okay, I understand now what you meant about certain perks that only mods can have, but as Kroro1 said, they don't need the ability to break blocks on other plots, it's not their map and should not be up to them to break blocks, they're just to judge. Also, if I'm correctly assuming that the forum is a xenforo site, it is probably too much work or may be impossible to create a role that has access to only one section, so why not leave that to the management? As I see it, the root of the problem, and what the original post was trying to solve was the lack of maps being judged and the back load of all the maps being submitted. And I feel like this problem could be fixed if we worked around it. I probably should be making a new suggestion thread for this now, but I think that then the responsibilities of a map judge should be changed. They can be a sub-sect of the Manacube Team that works directly with parkour server, but aren't directly affiliated with the staff team. They're only responsibility would be to check maps in the map submissions sections and if the map is up to their standard, they send it to the staff team so that the thread can be accepted and then the map be added by management. If the map falls short, they can just direct the thread to a staff member who can then reject the map. This would increase the efficiency of the map judging process and lighten the load of the few map judges we do have. Of course this would require the map judging application process to be strict, but in my opinion, it would be better than leaving the problem as is. Feel free to correct me or suggest some other things to add on to what I said, I'm just trying to see if there's a possible solution to the problem at hand.

There is still some problems, breaking blocks when judging is necessary (To be honest, in like 60% of maps we judged, we need to change Something on the map), if a map judge can't break blocks, it would be too much limited, and can be annoying for judging maps.
About the forum, confidence is still a problem, when we get "Helper", we can't do anything on the forum, not even moving a thread, if a Map judge can close thread, but not Helper, that would be pretty stupid. Even if applying for Map judge is really strict, there is still a chance to found a very good application, but behind, the guy is a troller, having a period which we can't touch to the forum for when we get Helper for example is an obligation, so admin know if they can give some of there confidence. But Map judge absolutely need to use the forum directly, so we are in an impasse. (After, making all of this is a bit too much for not a lot, I think Dacon have more important thing that remaking something that already work, even if it's a bit slow, adding parkour maps is more problematic than this)

 

[JakeNoot]

There is still some problems, breaking blocks when judging is necessary (To be honest, in like 60% of maps we judged, we need to change Something on the map), if a map judge can't break blocks, it would be too much limited, and can be annoying for judging maps.
About the forum, confidence is still a problem, when we get "Helper", we can't do anything on the forum, not even moving a thread, if a Map judge can close thread, but not Helper, that would be pretty stupid. Even if applying for Map judge is really strict, there is still a chance to found a very good application, but behind, the guy is a troller, having a period which we can't touch to the forum for when we get Helper for example is an obligation, so admin know if they can give some of there confidence. But Map judge absolutely need to use the forum directly, so we are in an impasse. (After, making all of this is a bit too much for not a lot, I think Dacon have more important thing that remaking something that already work, even if it's a bit slow, adding parkour maps is more problematic than this)

Breaking blocks can easily be given a solution. If a player judge is looking at a map and they believe a block should be broken, then can either address the player about the issue, or have a staff member judge break the block for them. It wouldn’t make the job limited, and it would definitely still get the job done more efficiently and better than it’s being done already. Even so, maps that are good enough to be accepted shouldn't even have to go through the process of having blocks broken (however, if they need to have blocks broken, staff can be alerted).

As for the argument of confidence within accepting judges, they could always go through a trial period or interview so admins and management can make sure they’re fit for being a map judge. If a trial period is put in for map judges, they can always request for a staff map judge to move and lock threads after accepting/denying a map if there is a trial of uncertainty.

Along with moving threads, map judges having the ability to move threads but not Helpers shouldn’t be a problem. I’m almost sure there’s a way to make a rank with permissions to move threads in only one area of the forums, so it shouldn’t be too much of a problem if map judges are only able to move threads in the Map Submissions forum.

Finally, as for Dakota potentially not wanting to do something about the issue:

1. The current way maps are judged works completely, yes, but it’s still very slow and can be improved.
2. The sole purpose of a server / being a server owner is to always improve. If there’s a path for improvement Dakota can take for the server to be better and make things more efficient, he should most certainly take it.
3. The process of my suggestion isn’t that problematic. It’s a way to improve the server and the route at hand should definitely be taken. If players had the ability to judge maps, the process would be so much more efficient and better for everyone. Hell, more maps could even attract more players to the server if executed well enough. Lots of players are bored once they’ve competed all of the maps at hand, and more maps can give more things to do.

 

[Blurpyfied]

The only thing I have to say is No. Here's why.
If a player were to judge a map on a person they hated, would completely wrong and mean along with it being rude.So if you hated me for example and i upload a map, then the Player who hated me would instantly reject it for something really stupid. That would be abuse every time it happened and the player who would upload the map would get pretty annoyed.
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Breaking blocks can easily be given a solution. If a player judge is looking at a map and they believe a block should be broken, then can either address the player about the issue, or have a staff member judge break the block for them. It wouldn’t make the job limited, and it would definitely still get the job done more efficiently and better than it’s being done already. Even so, maps that are good enough to be accepted shouldn't even have to go through the process of having blocks broken (however, if they need to have blocks broken, staff can be alerted).

As for the argument of confidence within accepting judges, they could always go through a trial period or interview so admins and management can make sure they’re fit for being a map judge. If a trial period is put in for map judges, they can always request for a staff map judge to move and lock threads after accepting/denying a map if there is a trial of uncertainty.

Along with moving threads, map judges having the ability to move threads but not Helpers shouldn’t be a problem. I’m almost sure there’s a way to make a rank with permissions to move threads in only one area of the forums, so it shouldn’t be too much of a problem if map judges are only able to move threads in the Map Submissions forum.

Finally, as for Dakota potentially not wanting to do something about the issue:

1. The current way maps are judged works completely, yes, but it’s still very slow and can be improved.
2. The sole purpose of a server / being a server owner is to always improve. If there’s a path for improvement Dakota can take for the server to be better and make things more efficient, he should most certainly take it.
3. The process of my suggestion isn’t that problematic. It’s a way to improve the server and the route at hand should definitely be taken. If players had the ability to judge maps, the process would be so much more efficient and better for everyone. Hell, more maps could even attract more players to the server if executed well enough. Lots of players are bored once they’ve competed all of the maps at hand, and more maps can give more things to do.

 

[JakeNoot]

The only thing I have to say is No. Here's why.
If a player were to judge a map on a person they hated, would completely wrong and mean along with it being rude.So if you hated me for example and i upload a map, then the Player who hated me would instantly reject it for something really stupid. That would be abuse every time it happened and the player who would upload the map would get pretty annoyed.
[DOUBLEPOST=1532989910][/DOUBLEPOST]

-Age requirement to assure a mature and non-biased judging of the maps

Anyone who becomes a map judge would have to be mature enough to give an unbiased opinion on maps. Whether this is done by an age requirement or a trial period, it'd have to be implemented.

 

[hoju]

The only thing I have to say is No. Here's why.
If a player were to judge a map on a person they hated, would completely wrong and mean along with it being rude.So if you hated me for example and i upload a map, then the Player who hated me would instantly reject it for something really stupid. That would be abuse every time it happened and the player who would upload the map would get pretty annoyed.
[DOUBLEPOST=1532989910][/DOUBLEPOST]

Only professional judges would be accepted, and the entire reason of this thread it to increase the map judges, therefore lowering the chances of any one particular judge judging your map.
[DOUBLEPOST=1533022037,1533021267][/DOUBLEPOST]

There is still some problems, breaking blocks when judging is necessary (To be honest, in like 60% of maps we judged, we need to change Something on the map), if a map judge can't break blocks, it would be too much limited, and can be annoying for judging maps.
About the forum, confidence is still a problem, when we get "Helper", we can't do anything on the forum, not even moving a thread, if a Map judge can close thread, but not Helper, that would be pretty stupid. Even if applying for Map judge is really strict, there is still a chance to found a very good application, but behind, the guy is a troller, having a period which we can't touch to the forum for when we get Helper for example is an obligation, so admin know if they can give some of there confidence. But Map judge absolutely need to use the forum directly, so we are in an impasse. (After, making all of this is a bit too much for not a lot, I think Dacon have more important thing that remaking something that already work, even if it's a bit slow, adding parkour maps is more problematic than this)

I'm assuming the necessary block breaking is for minor details and such, but I think something like that could be easily done when the map is either being looked over by management or being added as a map. If not, what the judge is doing is not judging, but changing the map to their liking. Also, I don't really understand when you say that we are at an impasse since map judges directly need permissions on the forum. To my understanding, map judges only need permission to reject or accept map in the submissions sections. I'm suggesting that we just make it so that they just need to alert Mod+ to accept or reject it for them. Ergo reducing any chance of helpers losing self-esteem because they don't have any permissions on the forum. And also, this way certain trolls who were accepted even afterwards could only have power through a higher staff member, who could immediately take notice if the player were to try and "troll" on the forums.
I understand that management may have more immediate matters to attend to, but I'd disagree with you when saying the current map adding system works. It's slow and doesn't have enough judges to support the amount of maps that are submitted. I may be overbearing, but it's only a matter of time till this problem is addressed.

 

[ChocBar]

If you would like to become a map judge, then please apply for Parkour Staff.

 

[JakeNoot]

If you would like to become a map judge, then please apply for Parkour Staff.

This is part of what I'm saying. The only way to become a parkour judge is if you're a staff member, leaving other members out of the opportunity. Some players may want the ability to test and judge maps, and not be a staff member. The responsibilities and permissions are completely different, and not at being a staff member should not be the only way to receive the opportunity.

 

[hoju]

If you would like to become a map judge, then please apply for Parkour Staff.

Sure, people can just apply for staff if they'd like to be a parkour map judge, but that really just defeats the purpose of this thread: trying to allow players to become map judges independently from staff. Some players may not want the responsibilities of being a staff member, but just have the ability to test maps and push them out faster than they have been currently. Which I would fully support since, correct me if I'm wrong, have no real down side.

 

[ChocBar]

While I appreciate your desire to help the community, being Parkour staff is the only way to become map judge for several reasons, which I will not go into. If you would like to give your input on maps, you are welcome to look at and comment on every map posted. That is why maps are posted for public comment. Opinions are taken into account. However, the position of Map Judge is a staffing position.

 

[Blurpyfied]

purple I love you

 

[Artificiosus]

Although it is a good idea i feel there would be quite a few disadvantages