[Survival] Make ManaPond great (again?)

[CzechJester]

Make ManaPond™ great (again?)

Introduction:
As per words of Swrds "Give it a week", here I am, one week later to make a constructive criticism and send hugs for the quick changes and listening to feedback. I feel I am fairly experienced with ManaPond, as I managed to crawl up the top 3 leaderboards last season in just 3 month (when the server was over 2 years old) and this season managed to finish the first step of ManaPond /challenge. (Damn you QD_iBlqzy for taking the first one this season)

Here is my opinion on the state of actual (and previous ponds) - for the busy people, I will make a short version at the bottom.

Fly or NoFly
This change created two parties on the server - those that hated it and those that loved the chaos. I feel it can work both ways, depending on how it will be done.

Fly
Pros:

• Access to the whole pond
• Takes a bit of skill to actually land the hook in flight
• Actually kinda fun and something different

Cons:

• As of today, player models block the hook -> You won´t even get to the item you want to catch
• Chaotic as hell
• Limitation in the fly area might make catching the items lower than you difficult (+items are 2D which can lead to them being "invisible" under certain angles)

NoFly
Pros:

• Takes skill with timing and distance estimation
• Everybody has access only to a part of the pond, distributing the loot among more players (some might consider this con)
• Clear where items come from

Cons:

• Creates "Elite" zones, where experienced players catch everything that is within their reach
• Lack of structures around the pond leads to overcrowding
• Many items fall through, as no one catches them

Conclusion:

• In case of Fly, I recommend getting rid of the hook getting blocked by player models and giving the fly over the whole pond y coord to really bring in the chaos.
• In case of No Fly, there is really big need for more platforms.

Other than that, I feel either way is fine, but the pond will need to be adapted to it.

Water or Edge
This season brought us the ability to go right into the pond, which might seem like a great idea, but with the current situation, there is absolutely 0 reason to do so, there are more factors that corresponds to this.

Water
Pros:

• Access to whole pond
• Not many players in the way of view and not that many rivals in the center (where the edge players have hard time reaching)

Cons:

• Lack of height - players with elevation can precast their hook to get to the item much faster than in water (throwing down vs up)
• Not so clear as to where the new items are and how far they are
• Gets flunged about every time an item spawns near
• Unstable foothold in case of moving around the pond (watching the items and jumping on lily pads can be hard - people falling into water most of the time)

Edge
Pros:

• Clear view of the pond
• Items stop at eye height level -> you know exactly where they will stop to catch them more easily
• Semi-high - Not the highest elevation, but still provide bigger range on the cast.

Cons:

• Access to only part of the pond (about 40%) (some might see this as a pro)
• Overcrowded
• Not enough structures - only two sides have a structure set up to stand on (with the dock being harder to access due to no ladders)

Conclusion:
There must be done something to give that extra edge to the water players, they are closer to the items, meaning they should reach them first, but the reel-in time still prevents them from doing so, before the edge players reach the items as well.

Reel in time
Thank you Swrds for making the changes to the awful time it took at the start of the season, but with the no fly at the moment, it´s still a bit wonky. With the items stopping at eye level, there isn´t really that much time for the item to get flight and it´s really easy to catch them before their max height. If you try to reel-in before it gets like 80-90% up, you will not get the item. This is a problem if the items pops up near the edge and the players.

Ideas:

• Get rid of the reel-in delay altogether, unless there is a specific reason to have it
  • This will help the water players to get advantage as well
  • Of course, players that can "predict" where the item will be based on the timing of the particles, they will reach it before anyone else has a chance to even cast
  • First come first served, rewarding the players for being skilled
• To support this more, I would raise the elevation around the edges and fling the items higher - you basically don´t have a second chance now
  • That will mean that the water players will try to catch the fast flying item before it reaches the players on top, who will have better chance due to the item´s velocity getting slower at it´s peak - high risk high reward for water players.

Particles and items
Another new feature is the particles effect to show where the items will come from - this one is a double edged sword. At one side, you can focus on the place and line-up, which helps high ping players with getting ready for the items and not playing the "reflex and flick" game. On the other side, more experienced players will use this to predict the items placement in the air and getting to it the moment it flies up.

Ideas:

• I feel its great to have the particles, but if it is possible to make the delay random on an interval, I would suggest so.
• I wouldn´t be afraid to fling more items into the air - if you can control the quadrant for items, it might be great to fling at 3/4 quadrants every time with 4 items in each, this will distribute the hooks among many items (implementing the random delay will force players to focus and actually make an effort)

I am happy with the selection of items that fly up. There are some junk items same as some nice rewards (cubit, keys).

Short version
For the busy of you, I will try to summarize the ideas and conclusions (or opinions):

• Get rid of reel-in delay (now ends about 80-90% of the way up)
• Randomize more the timing of items being flung
• Flung more items into the air to force diverse hook cast
• Add more structures around the pond (unless we get fly back)
• Raise the elevation and fling the items higher (this will give water players more chances to "steal" for high risk high reward tactic)
• Happy with the selection of items
• Happy with the size of the pond (not access to full pond, but only your part where you compete with smaller group)

Final words
It might feel that I am reverse engineering the pond from the last season (which was my favorite activity), but we can merge main points of both ponds together to create a hybrid where everyone will find what they want. I can´t complain with the state of the pond, as I reel in averaging 35 items a pond (which brings in the question, am I stealing everything, or is some loot not counted towards the 130 cap?)

I would like to see more love for the water players (as this is main selling point for this season´s pond), as I see them struggle everytime I am on the bridge and give people more places to stand on (some resorted to fly into the trees around the pond which is way too high)

I might have forgot something, so feel free to bring in your own ideas or opinions on the matter! Hopefully something productive will come from this and everybody will be happy with the state of the pond.

Happy ponding people!

 

[M a i s y]

They should also make it easier for noobs (me) (im so bad at catching stuff)

 

[Nexid]

So I've been doing pond exclusively as a water player so the following are my opinion from that point off view. I am fairly happy with the no fly over pond. They made the changes to the pond and if we just stay out of the water, then it is just a reskin of the old pond.

Some of the most fun I have had in the current pond is being shot up into the air and landing my hook on the item that shot me away. A "Fade away catch" I call it. Or being shot into the air, seeing an item in the air and grabbing it. A mid air catch. Only did one of those. I believe there is a lot of skill involved. I can get my rod on the item as it goes up faster then any of the people up high, now I just need to work on getting the timing of when to reel it in. So I do think there should be some reel delay else the people in the water have a major advantage in that case.

Now while I like playing in the water and hope for more perks for being in there, I do want for there to be a choice between wanting to be an edge player or water. Depending on preference and play style.

I like the idea of varying height of items flung up, but you will also need to alter the speed else it doesn't matter how high it might go if you can time the interception on the way up. Randomizing the timing of when things pop up would be a bit frustrating for me personally because i've learned the timing of when it's about to come out of the pond. I was pretty proud of my skills growing when timing those kind of things from down there.

My counter suggestion would be randomize when the white particles spawn but keep the time it takes for the item to pop up consistent. It can pop out quicker to add better reaction time, but I think keeping some consistency will reward the players that want to get better and learn pond. Keep some skill in the pond. Oh and yeah just pop up more items rather then just 2 at a time so people have to choose where to go.

More structures would be nice. Give people better angles and diversify where you stay in pond. Just can be hard to balance to avoid too many elite spots.

And this is a request from a fisherman if you do add structures to pond, PLEASE don't put too many blocks over the water. Fishing when the bobber doesn't see the sky will basically increase the time between each fish by 100%! That means it takes twice as long to fish. And with pond being the only place that has access to all fish, please don't make it harder to fish there.

Anyway I am enjoying the pond so far, but I can see that it can still become better. More fun for people. I am open to ideas and change. Will do my best to adapt. As long as pond becomes better then I'm open to different ideas.

 

[studio_c]

If they don't change it at all they should at least get rid of the pond requirement for prestiging with something else like Mana monsters killed or boss kills or player kills

 

[Nexid]

If they don't change it at all they should at least get rid of the pond requirement for prestiging with something else like Mana monsters killed or boss kills or player kills

Manapond isn't required anymore for prestige. You do have to catch 75 fish though