PETITION TO GO BACK TO THE OLD RANKING SYSTEM

relishbb

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#1
What was the old ranking system?
Prior to the introduction of the S2 update, the game's ranking system operated differently. Instead of needing the completion of specific maps to advance in rank, progression was solely based on mana. This approach had garnered substantial support within the player community. It offered a refreshing alternative, allowing gamers to chart their own course through the ranks without the pressure of having to do expert or insane difficulty maps.

The key appeal of this mana-based ranking system was its flexibility. Players relished the freedom to advance at their own pace, free from the constraints of mandatory map challenges. This flexibility ensured that players could fully enjoy the game without becoming annoyed by the demanding requirements of particular maps, which often posed a significant hurdle for those still honing their skills.

However, with the arrival of the S2 update, the mechanics of the ranking system were overhauled. Players now have to complete specific maps in order to go through the ranks.
Why was it removed?
The reason the old ranking system was removed was because it was seen as 'too easy' or 'pay to win'
Could we keep the old ranking system, but avoid it becoming to easy?
Theres a couple ways we could make this less easy, such as needing more mana to rankup. Maps already have a cooldown on them, which kind of prevents grinding one map.
Why was this change controversial
The alteration, while undoubtedly introducing a new layer of challenge and structure, has not been without its critics. Many players have expressed concerns about being compelled to undertake challenging maps prematurely, potentially leading to frustration and stagnation in their progress. Nonetheless, some view this change as an opportunity for personal growth and mastering tougher gameplay elements.

In my personal opinion, I strongly favor the older ranking system. Ranking up was an enjoyable and rewarding experience. It allowed for a sense of accomplishment and progression that felt more organic and in line with the core essence of the game. The flexibility of the system, which relied on mana accumulation rather than specific map completions, made it feel more engaging and fulfilling.

The older system allowed players to rankup with a sense of freedom and self-determination. It wasn't about completing an arbitrary number of maps; it was about overcoming challenges at a pace that suited individual preferences. This aspect of the game's design resonated with me and many others.

However, the introduction of the new ranking system, which seemingly mandates the completion of a substantial number of maps, has significantly altered the ranking experience. Personally, I find myself less motivated to attempt ranking up under this system. The prospect of having to complete a large number of maps can be overwhelming and, at times, demotivating. It's transformed the ranking process from an actual fun thing that I actually want to spent time oninto what can sometimes feel like a monotonous and time-consuming chore.

It's not just me who holds this opinion; a considerable portion of the player community echoes similar sentiments. Many players express that ranking up now feels more like a repetitive task rather than an enjoyable experience. Progression has been replaced by a sense of obligation, and this shift has led to a noticeable decline in enthusiasm among players.

In essence, while changes in game mechanics and ranking systems can sometimes enhance gameplay and maintain player engagement, it's essential for developers to carefully consider the player experience. Striking a balance between challenge and enjoyment is pivotal, and many players, myself included, believe that the older ranking system captured this balance more effectively.


TL : DR

In conclusion, the old ranking system in the game was based on accumulating mana, allowing players to progress at their own pace without the need to complete specific maps. However, this system was ultimately replaced by the S2 update due to concerns that it was considered "too easy" or potentially "pay to win."

While some players favored the older system for its flexibility and sense of accomplishment, the new ranking system has proven controversial. Many players feel compelled to complete challenging maps prematurely, leading to frustration and a perception of ranking becoming more of a chore than an enjoyable experience.

In my personal opinion, I share the sentiment that the older ranking system was more engaging and fulfilling. It allowed for individualized progression and a sense of freedom. The introduction of the new ranking system, which mandates map completion, has made the ranking process feel more like an obligation rather than a source of enjoyment for me and many others. Striking a balance between challenge and enjoyment remains crucial in the ongoing development of the game to cater to the diverse needs of the player community.
 

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#3
Yes +1
 

relishbb

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#5
I agree for the most part, however I do believe some insane/expert completions are essential to actually make sure you have skill and not just mana.
oh yea i agree with that, i feel like we could be better off if it was balanced
 

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#6
Maps already have a cooldown on them, which kind of prevents grinding one map.
Players relished the freedom to advance at their own pace
no one is forcing players to need to rank up. the whole point of parkour is to improve and if that takes someone all the easy maps then so be it. they're not gonna change the ranking system to go back to only mana because it is easily p2w. anytime anyone brings up the old system its followed by saying it was too easy to rank up. A cooldown will not make a difference, they will keep grinding one map.
 

Dooble

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#7
alright sure ill weigh in

The ranking system change was a necessary evil in order to remove the problem that plagued the original idea, being that the freedom was too open ended, being able to exclusively play easies for the highest rank and adventures without ever touching 90% of the content was something that shouldn't of been possible and the new system was put in place to help remedy that.

I'll address the stuff about the current system first

Players relished the freedom to advance at their own pace, free from the constraints of mandatory map challenges
This is still entirely possible, if you aren't ready for the next rank up you're still able to play other maps to hone your skills and have a headstart on the next rank by the time youre ready enough to start tackling the challenges you were stuck on. Granted it is harder to simply ignore the requirement in front of you but it still can be done if needed



Theres a couple ways we could make this less easy, such as needing more mana to rankup. Maps already have a cooldown on them, which kind of prevents grinding one map.
This would just make grinding more necessary then it already is, with the cooldown not helping, you still have the chore like grinding just for mana instead of requirements




It allowed for a sense of accomplishment and progression that felt more organic and in line with the core essence of the game. The flexibility of the system, which relied on mana accumulation rather than specific map completions, made it feel more engaging and fulfilling.

The older system allowed players to rankup with a sense of freedom and self-determination. It wasn't about completing an arbitrary number of maps; it was about overcoming challenges at a pace that suited individual preferences.
This freedom is again the problem with the old system, it wasn't about completing arbitrary numbers but rather rising to the occasion through any means you preferred, but this was specifically changed to squash out more avoidant playstyles, you should be able to go at your own pace, but you shouldn't be able to avoid those higher difficulties forever.

These self imposed challenges still exist however, the ranks are much more of a guide rather than an obligation, the arbitrary goals are just nicer stopping points on the way to a bigger goal compared to what the actual goal should be, you still need to beat every map, the current ranking system just gives you good indicators of when to rest.



However, the introduction of the new ranking system, which seemingly mandates the completion of a substantial number of maps, has significantly altered the ranking experience. Personally, I find myself less motivated to attempt ranking up under this system. The prospect of having to complete a large number of maps can be overwhelming and, at times, demotivating. It's transformed the ranking process from an actual fun thing that I actually want to spent time oninto what can sometimes feel like a monotonous and time-consuming chore.

It's not just me who holds this opinion; a considerable portion of the player community echoes similar sentiments. Many players express that ranking up now feels more like a repetitive task rather than an enjoyable experience. Progression has been replaced by a sense of obligation, and this shift has led to a noticeable decline in enthusiasm among players.
This is the largest slight against the ranking system and definitely one universally agreed upon, the weighting of how many maps per difficulty you need is grossly weighted towards many more easy maps and is definitely reduced to a grind by the end due to just how many lower difficulties you have vs how little higher difficulties, of course a way to fix this is to simply weight them more equally, but that doesn't exactly just magically fix the problem because now its 20 insanes for god instead of 5, going back to the old system of now you need to grind for currency instead of a quota also won't fix the problem.


Overall the main problem with this is, the new system may be flawed, but so was the old one, debatably more so which in my opinion at least means that an entirely new system should be focused on instead of backtracking to a system that was abandoned for having problems (grinding, equal map weighting, harder difficulty avoidance) simply because the current one also has problems.




This also brings me to the thing I want to address concerning the issues in how making a new system is very difficult in of itself.

The major disparity in what different groups want in a ranking system:


One reason the switch to map quotas was made was to make manacube a little more skill based to apply to more experienced people, with this testament potentially continuing in the future, the problem with this approach is simple:

Manacube players are mostly made up of casual players who are less skilled and as such enjoy less of a challenge and more freedom.
Experienced players are made up of players who want to be rewarded for there skill on harder maps and want the highest ranks to have prestige and be elusive for only the most worthy and dedicated players to reach.

In a way this is achieved right now with the champion system but also as is pointed out, the system ATTEMPTS to favour casual players by offering way larger quotas of easier difficulties compared to harder difficulties but very noticeably fails in that regard.

So how do you appease both sides? Those who want the freedom to play anything in any order in any amount to still have a chance to progress through the ranks, while still having people who want a challenge and for the ranks to mean something beyond just who can play harry potter enough times to be on equal footing with someone who beat wolyung the same amount of times. Well unfortunately in my humble opinion: you can't.

Trying to appease such vastly different preferences for progression just isn't feasible and major changes are a lose lose because any way you slice it, people aren't gonna be willing to redo maps AGAIN, possibly ever.

There have been some ideas for solving the issue, such as grinding maps for mana to then use said mana to buy a skill based rankup map in order to actually unlock the next rank, or just requiring mana to purchase maps, or even beating a certain number of maps before having the opportunity to rank all the way to god through some huge challenge, but none of these solutions seem to scratch specifically the right itch that both parties want, I guess the closest one is the grind to buy a rankup, but both sides don't wish to be forced to do the other side of that so the solution falls through.

Overall its a very messy situation, the new system has problems yes, but the old system also had problems. Neither system perfect and free of problems and the best thing to do moving forward in order to fix it is to try and introduce a brand new system, though its difficult as said here it's basically impossible to make everyone happy with one definitive ranking system.
 

FiniPanini

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#9
Well, yeah actually now that i think about it i rlly like the rankup system, cuz it wouldd be weird having champions who are absolute shit at parkour, so yeah no need to change it imo
 

relishbb

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#10
I ain't really a parkour type of guy, but just by reading the first few sentences of the petition, I knew it wasn't going to be straight forwards. People who pay for cubits and then turn those cubits into mana to rankup is a tremendously horrible idea. When applying for staff on parkour they ask for you to be 'experienced' in parkour by showing them you've seen/can do difficult and abnormal jumps.
  • If you are applying for Parkour, you must have the Expert rank or higher -[(quote by Dylan) staff application requirement]
They also mention this is some older, rejected parkour applications. Saying the God rank shows them that they are skilled and can probably identify a cheater when they come across a suspect.

This petition is basically saying for you to give a new born chicken food and expect it to be automatically hunt food when it grows up, or when there are no humans around to feed it.

-1 Idea
1. You can see that on one of the sections I mentioned not being able to rankup with mana you didn't earn yourself.

2. I understand where you're coming from with the staff application requirements, however as i mentioned in reply to Chaseman713, I mentioned possibly having a balance of the old and new ones, like essentially having less maps to do and more mana needed.

3. A Chicken will grow up to hunt. It's in their nature


Thank you for your response, even know I may agree with some of your points and disagree with others
Post automatically merged:

Well, yeah actually now that i think about it i rlly like the rankup system, cuz it wouldd be weird having champions who are absolute shit at parkour, so yeah no need to change it imo
Okay, but that just wouldnt be the case as to get champion rank, you have to prestige and do difficult challenges like complete every map, get 1k spawn pk jumps, etc. But I somewhat agree, as I mentioned before in the thread, a little balance with the system could be nice.
Post automatically merged:

doob put it best and for the record, it worked to get me motivated (at least until god)
Makes sense, but IMO doing shitloads of hards doesnt motivate me, it makes me wanna kms lmao.
I should probably just get better at pk, but I still don't think I'd ever make it to god rank due to the fact I have a really shit attention spam and I feel this personally would benefit people like me xD
Post automatically merged:

alright sure ill weigh in

The ranking system change was a necessary evil in order to remove the problem that plagued the original idea, being that the freedom was too open ended, being able to exclusively play easies for the highest rank and adventures without ever touching 90% of the content was something that shouldn't of been possible and the new system was put in place to help remedy that.

I'll address the stuff about the current system first



This is still entirely possible, if you aren't ready for the next rank up you're still able to play other maps to hone your skills and have a headstart on the next rank by the time youre ready enough to start tackling the challenges you were stuck on. Granted it is harder to simply ignore the requirement in front of you but it still can be done if needed





This would just make grinding more necessary then it already is, with the cooldown not helping, you still have the chore like grinding just for mana instead of requirements






This freedom is again the problem with the old system, it wasn't about completing arbitrary numbers but rather rising to the occasion through any means you preferred, but this was specifically changed to squash out more avoidant playstyles, you should be able to go at your own pace, but you shouldn't be able to avoid those higher difficulties forever.

These self imposed challenges still exist however, the ranks are much more of a guide rather than an obligation, the arbitrary goals are just nicer stopping points on the way to a bigger goal compared to what the actual goal should be, you still need to beat every map, the current ranking system just gives you good indicators of when to rest.





This is the largest slight against the ranking system and definitely one universally agreed upon, the weighting of how many maps per difficulty you need is grossly weighted towards many more easy maps and is definitely reduced to a grind by the end due to just how many lower difficulties you have vs how little higher difficulties, of course a way to fix this is to simply weight them more equally, but that doesn't exactly just magically fix the problem because now its 20 insanes for god instead of 5, going back to the old system of now you need to grind for currency instead of a quota also won't fix the problem.


Overall the main problem with this is, the new system may be flawed, but so was the old one, debatably more so which in my opinion at least means that an entirely new system should be focused on instead of backtracking to a system that was abandoned for having problems (grinding, equal map weighting, harder difficulty avoidance) simply because the current one also has problems.




This also brings me to the thing I want to address concerning the issues in how making a new system is very difficult in of itself.

The major disparity in what different groups want in a ranking system:


One reason the switch to map quotas was made was to make manacube a little more skill based to apply to more experienced people, with this testament potentially continuing in the future, the problem with this approach is simple:

Manacube players are mostly made up of casual players who are less skilled and as such enjoy less of a challenge and more freedom.
Experienced players are made up of players who want to be rewarded for there skill on harder maps and want the highest ranks to have prestige and be elusive for only the most worthy and dedicated players to reach.

In a way this is achieved right now with the champion system but also as is pointed out, the system ATTEMPTS to favour casual players by offering way larger quotas of easier difficulties compared to harder difficulties but very noticeably fails in that regard.

So how do you appease both sides? Those who want the freedom to play anything in any order in any amount to still have a chance to progress through the ranks, while still having people who want a challenge and for the ranks to mean something beyond just who can play harry potter enough times to be on equal footing with someone who beat wolyung the same amount of times. Well unfortunately in my humble opinion: you can't.

Trying to appease such vastly different preferences for progression just isn't feasible and major changes are a lose lose because any way you slice it, people aren't gonna be willing to redo maps AGAIN, possibly ever.

There have been some ideas for solving the issue, such as grinding maps for mana to then use said mana to buy a skill based rankup map in order to actually unlock the next rank, or just requiring mana to purchase maps, or even beating a certain number of maps before having the opportunity to rank all the way to god through some huge challenge, but none of these solutions seem to scratch specifically the right itch that both parties want, I guess the closest one is the grind to buy a rankup, but both sides don't wish to be forced to do the other side of that so the solution falls through.

Overall its a very messy situation, the new system has problems yes, but the old system also had problems. Neither system perfect and free of problems and the best thing to do moving forward in order to fix it is to try and introduce a brand new system, though its difficult as said here it's basically impossible to make everyone happy with one definitive ranking system.
Yeah, both ranking systems aren't that good at all, I'll edit the post soon to change my views bc i feel like i worded this horribly XD
 
Last edited:

MarvelFamily

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#11
Makes sense, but IMO doing shitloads of hards doesnt motivate me, it makes me wanna kms lmao.
I should probably just get better at pk, but I still don't think I'd ever make it to god rank due to the fact I have a really shit attention spam and I feel this personally would benefit people like me XD


I didn't say that the requirements need to be tweaked (they definitely do) but with the old ranking system I never could be motivated to do an insane and I still got top rank, with the newer I felt like it was my skill that got me to god.


oops screwed up the reply thing
 

Shinxray

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#12
I will not say much because dooble said everything, but I will agree that there is a bit too many easy-hard maps compared to expert/insane maps in the current system and we will see for the next update (probably in 87 years at best).

I much prefer the current system than the previous one, because it's more based on skill, and it was not the case before, like I think it's stupid that someone just grinding the same easy maps could have the same rank as someone that could beat the hardest map in the server (and that's without adding people spamming droppers, coinflips or geting mana from other, because you couldn't reach the last 3 rankups without completing maps in the old rankup system).

Also there is something that confuse me a bit, you don't want pressure to play expert-insane ? Then what is the point of ranking up ? (excepted having a different tag in front of your username) You want people to advance at their own pace ? Well, what is forcing you not to ? The purpose of rankups is to give some challenge to people that want to play parkour but what you are asking is removing it's only purpose. If you don't want to play experts or insanes, then don't ? I would understand if you unlocked stuff by ranking up, but that's (almost) not the case (only need skilled rank for expert/insanes and it's one of the first rank, and expert for parkour staff, but in this case it's because we actually need skilled and active players). You have access to most of the maps very fast, why are you pressured about something technically optional ?

Just beat the maps you want to beat, complete every hards while not completing a single expert and only 20 easy for example, you will stay on the same rank for a long time but who cares ? You so much want to reach the next rank fast with small effort that you forgot how to chill and have fun playing maps. (and at the end you will have to complete every maps for champion so stop focusing on rankups and focus on having fun)

Also the reason why there is that many easy-hard is because we wanted to reduce the gap for champion rank, but at the end it's a bit too many compared to how many expert/insanes you need to complete, so like I said at the start, we will probably rebalance the requirements so there is way less easy-hards and a bit more expert/insanes if possible.
 

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#13
this season's rank up actually got me to play maps i would typically avoid. when i started playing pk, i completed all easy maps, some mediums and like near nothing else. once the requirements came around, i tried all kinds of maps and now i can do insanes and experts
 

relishbb

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#14
I will not say much because dooble said everything, but I will agree that there is a bit too many easy-hard maps compared to expert/insane maps in the current system and we will see for the next update (probably in 87 years at best).

I much prefer the current system than the previous one, because it's more based on skill, and it was not the case before, like I think it's stupid that someone just grinding the same easy maps could have the same rank as someone that could beat the hardest map in the server (and that's without adding people spamming droppers, coinflips or geting mana from other, because you couldn't reach the last 3 rankups without completing maps in the old rankup system).

Also there is something that confuse me a bit, you don't want pressure to play expert-insane ? Then what is the point of ranking up ? (excepted having a different tag in front of your username) You want people to advance at their own pace ? Well, what is forcing you not to ? The purpose of rankups is to give some challenge to people that want to play parkour but what you are asking is removing it's only purpose. If you don't want to play experts or insanes, then don't ? I would understand if you unlocked stuff by ranking up, but that's (almost) not the case (only need skilled rank for expert/insanes and it's one of the first rank, and expert for parkour staff, but in this case it's because we actually need skilled and active players). You have access to most of the maps very fast, why are you pressured about something technically optional ?

Just beat the maps you want to beat, complete every hards while not completing a single expert and only 20 easy for example, you will stay on the same rank for a long time but who cares ? You so much want to reach the next rank fast with small effort that you forgot how to chill and have fun playing maps. (and at the end you will have to complete every maps for champion so stop focusing on rankups and focus on having fun)

Also the reason why there is that many easy-hard is because we wanted to reduce the gap for champion rank, but at the end it's a bit too many compared to how many expert/insanes you need to complete, so like I said at the start, we will probably rebalance the requirements so there is way less easy-hards and a bit more expert/insanes if possible.
I understand why you disagree, and also it's reasurring to hear if theres an update, theres a possibility of less easy-hards because they r so annoying LOL
thank u for ur input btw
 

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#15
What was the old ranking system?
Prior to the introduction of the S2 update, the game's ranking system operated differently. Instead of needing the completion of specific maps to advance in rank, progression was solely based on mana. This approach had garnered substantial support within the player community. It offered a refreshing alternative, allowing gamers to chart their own course through the ranks without the pressure of having to do expert or insane difficulty maps.

The key appeal of this mana-based ranking system was its flexibility. Players relished the freedom to advance at their own pace, free from the constraints of mandatory map challenges. This flexibility ensured that players could fully enjoy the game without becoming annoyed by the demanding requirements of particular maps, which often posed a significant hurdle for those still honing their skills.

However, with the arrival of the S2 update, the mechanics of the ranking system were overhauled. Players now have to complete specific maps in order to go through the ranks.
Why was it removed?
The reason the old ranking system was removed was because it was seen as 'too easy' or 'pay to win'
Could we keep the old ranking system, but avoid it becoming to easy?
Theres a couple ways we could make this less easy, such as needing more mana to rankup. Maps already have a cooldown on them, which kind of prevents grinding one map.
Why was this change controversial
The alteration, while undoubtedly introducing a new layer of challenge and structure, has not been without its critics. Many players have expressed concerns about being compelled to undertake challenging maps prematurely, potentially leading to frustration and stagnation in their progress. Nonetheless, some view this change as an opportunity for personal growth and mastering tougher gameplay elements.

In my personal opinion, I strongly favor the older ranking system. Ranking up was an enjoyable and rewarding experience. It allowed for a sense of accomplishment and progression that felt more organic and in line with the core essence of the game. The flexibility of the system, which relied on mana accumulation rather than specific map completions, made it feel more engaging and fulfilling.

The older system allowed players to rankup with a sense of freedom and self-determination. It wasn't about completing an arbitrary number of maps; it was about overcoming challenges at a pace that suited individual preferences. This aspect of the game's design resonated with me and many others.

However, the introduction of the new ranking system, which seemingly mandates the completion of a substantial number of maps, has significantly altered the ranking experience. Personally, I find myself less motivated to attempt ranking up under this system. The prospect of having to complete a large number of maps can be overwhelming and, at times, demotivating. It's transformed the ranking process from an actual fun thing that I actually want to spent time oninto what can sometimes feel like a monotonous and time-consuming chore.

It's not just me who holds this opinion; a considerable portion of the player community echoes similar sentiments. Many players express that ranking up now feels more like a repetitive task rather than an enjoyable experience. Progression has been replaced by a sense of obligation, and this shift has led to a noticeable decline in enthusiasm among players.

In essence, while changes in game mechanics and ranking systems can sometimes enhance gameplay and maintain player engagement, it's essential for developers to carefully consider the player experience. Striking a balance between challenge and enjoyment is pivotal, and many players, myself included, believe that the older ranking system captured this balance more effectively.


TL : DR

In conclusion, the old ranking system in the game was based on accumulating mana, allowing players to progress at their own pace without the need to complete specific maps. However, this system was ultimately replaced by the S2 update due to concerns that it was considered "too easy" or potentially "pay to win."

While some players favored the older system for its flexibility and sense of accomplishment, the new ranking system has proven controversial. Many players feel compelled to complete challenging maps prematurely, leading to frustration and a perception of ranking becoming more of a chore than an enjoyable experience.

In my personal opinion, I share the sentiment that the older ranking system was more engaging and fulfilling. It allowed for individualized progression and a sense of freedom. The introduction of the new ranking system, which mandates map completion, has made the ranking process feel more like an obligation rather than a source of enjoyment for me and many others. Striking a balance between challenge and enjoyment remains crucial in the ongoing development of the game to cater to the diverse needs of the player community.
All that needs to change is, like Shinx said, maybe less easy-hard maps requirements so that its not too boring and annoying to rankup, beating old maps. That's about it. The new system is good