Policy on Theft

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#1
So recently there have been quite a few cases of theft throughout the survival server. I haven't personally lost anything, but it's still very troubling. I originally came to this server in search of a community much like the exclusive HermitCraft server on YouTube, where everyone plays together, and nobody violates another's trust. Obviously, with a large population of random people, not well-known video makers, there are going to be instances of theft. But still... this is becoming absurd.

First of all, this is a survival server, not factions. The goal of this server is to peacefully get stronger, build a base, make new friends, and of course, make bank. While players may opt in to turning PvP on, fighting, stealing, and raiding should not be the focus of this server. Not only that, stealing is explicitly against the rules (note the sign in spawn). Even so, this rule is not fully enforced, and oftentimes offenders get off scot-free or with a minor temp ban, the staff claiming that there is nothing more they can do.

But I say otherwise. There IS more they can do. There IS a way to virtually eliminate theft on this server and create a more honest community.

So how do we do this, Sheep? Simple. Make it blatantly obvious that stealing will get you nowhere. You don't need to permanently ban the player; you don't need to tediously search through every one of the offender's chests to find the stolen items. All you have to do (drum-roll please) is roll back that one player. Our wonderful server utilizes the powerful plugin CoreProtect, which has the ability to roll back only a single player. This lets the staff undo any damage, punish the offender, AND reimburse the victim, all in one easy command. Not only that, but because CoreProtect will roll back all of the offending player's actions, the stolen items will be removed from their inventory, chests, or wherever they were stashed, so no items are duplicated. The rollback can then be followed by a warning, a temp ban, or a permanent ban, whatever the staff finds fit.

Best of all, this policy will reduce the temptation to steal. If players know that they will never benefit from stealing, they simply won't. That means fewer offenses, fewer conflicts, less work for staff, and most importantly, a healthier, more enjoyable community.

TL;DR Make stealing pointless, and people won't steal anymore. Also, CoreProtect is awesome.

Well. That's what I wanted to say. Sheep out.
 
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#2
I'm just going to add to this thread with my own experiences.
I came from a server called Legitplay, which unfortunately is no longer around due to personal issues with the owner. If a person griefed, they would roleback the player a week, and everything that was touched by that player was reversed. This method worked well, and only had hiccups if the player repaired the greif prior to the staff fixing it.


So my town of Bywater recently added a member who was apparently untrustworthy. This players were ranked, so we assumed that it was unlikely that they would be willing to jeopardize their rank by greifing. We were wrong.
These players stole:
15 hoppers
2 Iron Golem spawners
10 Blaze spawners
8 Cave Spider spawners
5 beacons
651 Iron blocks
And several tools and weapons belonging to other town members.

Unfortunately, the current policy is to temp ban the player and say bad luck to the person who was griefed. Frankly, this is a terrible system. The player who did the greifing waits a few days, and hops back on rich and decked out with the best gear. The victim then has the fun job of earning back all their items legit and grinding out long hours to get their stuff back. It rewards the greifers! If this rule stays the way it is, a quick and easy way for a new player to get rich is to talk their way into a party, steal all their stuff, and take a temporary ban on the chin

The survival server concentrates on party play, playing with your friends and making new friends. An element of trust is required in order for this person to become a friend. Allowing a person to join a party is the trust that is given. The fact that their is little to no support given to the victim discourages the creation of friendships with other users and goes against the entire point of the server.

If the policy regarding greifing isn't changed in some way, I see very little point in playing on the server as its policies clearly don't support the entire idea of the server.
 

SunsetMagic

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#3
Stealing/griefing is against the rules and when a player severely breaks this rule they are punished. However, the punishment varies dependending on the situation.

If the land is unclaimed, then nothing will be done, the owner of the land should of claimed it or otherwise it is free for anyone to build on.

If claimed land is griefed from someone not in the party, such as an outsider killing claim lands animals or editing item frames this WILL be rolled back and the player will be banned.

If small damage is done in a party then it is generally not fixed. It is the parties repsonability with who is added to the party and they should be careful with who is mod. As mods of parties are able to add anyone.

When large damage is done in a party then the player will be banned and it would be the parties responability to connect with that player and get the items back. In some cases the land is rolled back however when this happens the items are duplicated. This is why staff were told to no longer fix stolen spawners as it creates more in the game.

Also, in the future mods should be able to remove items from inventories and enderchests. This will allow us to get items from griefers ourselves!

For punishments:

1st Offence - 3 days
2nd Offence - 7 days
3rd Offence - Perm

I know this may seem frustrating, but it is the parties responability and you should add people carefully. We cannot just spawn items in the game because you were griefed, the items must be returned from the griefer.

Rolling back grief, is what we used to do and I believe since we stopped doing this, the amount of grief has actually lowered. People could easily abuse our kindness and duplicate their spawners. Or players griefed as they knew it would hardly affect the party and only result in a 3 day ban.

If you have any questions feel free to message me. As staff we really want a peaceful lovely community and we try our very hardest to please everyone. Yet we must follow what we have be told, and if a staff member tells you the land cannot be fixed then you should listen to that :).

All the best
Sunset
 
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#4
When large damage is done in a party then the player will be banned and it would be the parties responability to connect with that player and get the items back. In some cases the land is rolled back however when this happens the items are duplicated. This is why staff were told to no longer fix stolen spawners as it creates more in the game.

I know this may seem frustrating, but it is the parties responability and you should add people carefully. We cannot just spawn items in the game because you were griefed, the items must be returned from the griefer.

Rolling back grief, is what we used to do and I believe since we stopped doing this, the amount of grief has actually lowered. People could easily abuse our kindness and duplicate their spawners. Or players griefed as they knew it would hardly affect the party and only result in a 3 day ban.
I understand the concern regarding duplicated items. As I state in my post, however, the server is already equipped with a plugin to handle that. CoreProtect can roll back a single player's actions throughout the entire map, removing the stolen items no matter where they may have been hidden. Thus, no new items are generated.

Granted, there are ways around CoreProtect's system. Switching to a plugin like Prism may be a better option, but I'm sure Dacon and the crew don't want to install and reconfigure an entire new plugin. There is another option though: offenders can be given a permanent ban on their first offense. This may sound harsh, but hear me out.
  • As I stated before, this server is a survival server, not a factions server. Gaining items by stealing should not be a goal of this server, and if a player has no intention of earning items himself, he really should not be playing on the server in the first place.
  • And again, this is about sending a message. If a player knows he will never gain anything from stealing, he simply won't. Clamp down on offenders, show them you guys mean business, and the stealing will stop on its own.
  • You might ask: how does this zero tolerance policy affect MineVast as a whole? Won't we lose players? Simply put, no. At least we won't be losing healthy, well-intentioned players. Only the very few who choose to play by theft will find themselves without a server, and even the number of these players will decrease as time goes on with this policy in place. And MineVast is definitely popular enough to suffer a hit of a handful of unhealthy players. Heck, we might even gain more players who are (as I was) attracted to a server where friendly cooperation not theft is the mode.
  • On a related note, players can be banned only from the survival server. That way they may still enjoy MineVast's many other gamemodes, which are perhaps more suited to their play-style.
  • Convicted offenders always have the option to appeal their ban. Of course we don't want to completely shut out doors to those who truly love the server but simply had a brief lapse in judgment. A sincere apology on the forums, and the player is right back in the mix, probably with no intention of ever breaking the rules again.
Ultimately, as I said before, the point of this policy is to
reduce the temptation to steal. If players know that they will never benefit from stealing, they simply won't. That means fewer offenses, fewer conflicts, less work for staff, and most importantly, a healthier, more enjoyable community.
Once again, Sheep out.
[DOUBLEPOST=1468343416,1468342759][/DOUBLEPOST]
As staff we really want a peaceful lovely community and we try our very hardest to please everyone. Yet we must follow what we have be told, and if a staff member tells you the land cannot be fixed then you should listen to that :).
Also, as a side note, I realize that your hands are tied, and that you have to follow the policies set in place by Dacon and whoever else is in charge of survival. This post is mainly targeted at those people. They alone have the authority to decide policy. I just hope they take a look at this thread.
 

SunsetMagic

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#5
A perm ban would be way too harsh for griefers, some can be unaware of their actions and many would be sorry. The first ban is short to teach a lesson, and it does in many cases. Also, all grief bans from any server are only server wide.

Regarding CoreProtect, it does not work that way. When areas are rolled back, the damaged broken blocks are not taken from the player, they are spawned in therefore duplicating them.

However, thank you for your concern.
 

ChocBar

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#6
I don't know what the right answer is, but I do like this discussion

I believe the owners, staff and the majority of players want the same thing, to have a peaceful survival server. Rolling back the griefer's actions for an extended period of time would seem to be a viable option. However, we also need players to take some responsibility by maintaining their power and properly claiming their builds. If this is not done, in my opinion, they are asking for trouble. :rolleyes:

The way we have handled various offenses evolves over time as we come up with different approaches. Hopefully, @Dacon or @Dynsalir will weigh in, as they ultimately decide the way we handle situations like this.

Thanks for your input! I for one greatly appreciate the different way of looking at it, whatever the outcome is.
 

MyMixtapeOnFire

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#7
I do not find it fair that it is EVERYONE in the party's responsibility if they get insided/griefed by a member of their party. I was in a party called kingG, and I was just a member. However, my spawners and hoppers got stolen. How is it my responsibility if I do not have control over who is added to the party? I have received everything back, but I still think this rule could use some tampering. After all, If it's obvious someone does it- Its not hard to ban or roll back. I understand they don't want to ruin economy or have people exploiting or duping items with rolling back items or anything like that, but honestly, It's very demotivating losing your stuff with no control over it and then not being able to get it back. Just my 2 cents.
 
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#8
A perm ban would be way too harsh for griefers, some can be unaware of their actions and many would be sorry. The first ban is short to teach a lesson, and it does in many cases. Also, all grief bans from any server are only server wide.

Regarding CoreProtect, it does not work that way. When areas are rolled back, the damaged broken blocks are not taken from the player, they are spawned in therefore duplicating them.

However, thank you for your concern.
But why would you rollback an area? then you are doing it completely wrong. Roll back a player as it undoes his actions not all actions in an area. Setting an area to rollback will just replace the blocks and entities inside the area, not cancel out all of the actions. Rolling back a player instead of a selection of land will undo their actions alone and all inventory / chest items.

I was an Admin back in 2013 and I could use core protect when I was 12, I'm fairly certain that they wouldn't have changed such a valuable command...
The Bukkit page itself tells you that it can
"
  • Rollback or restore multiple players at once.
  • Create per-world configuration files.
  • Lookup, rollback, or restore by a specific action.
  • Exclude multiple users or blocks.
  • Preview rollbacks or restores.
  • Rollback per-player, or just do a global rollback to all damage around you."

http://minerealm.com/community/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=6781 says
  • "/co rollback <params> - Rollback block data
  • u:<user> - Specify a user to rollback.
    Example: u:Notch"
Doing so would rollback THIS players actions, you dont need to specifiy all parameters. All you NEED is time and user, then it would be done.

/co rollback u:user t:time r:#global This should not duplicate any items, where using a world edit selection would

No disrespect to whoever educated everyone on the use of coreprotect but it sounds like they didn't know much about it. (Or simply just didn't read the bukkit page)

~Hen
 
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Scuzz

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#9
/co rollback u:user t:time r:#global This should not duplicate any items, where using a world edit selection would
Radius of global? this would rollback everything that that user has done we don't want everything the player has done to be rollbacked we just want the grief to be rollback
 

ChocBar

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#10
Why not roll back everything the griefer has done? If they grief, they should have some significant consequences, and it takes out the risk of duplicating items in the game. Any stolen items would be removed.

The only way griefing will be stopped is if there are serious consequences. As long as it pays off, it will continue. Personally, I like the idea of rolling back all they have done. I don't really want griefers in MineVast anyway.

Edit: Dynsalir has explained that one reason we do not roll back a person rather than an area is server lag. Also, there is no guarantee the items will be removed from the game with a player roll back. There are situations where it will not remove stolen items from the game. Therefore it is not worth the risk of lag for just a possibility of removing the items.
 
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Scuzz

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#11
But what if they only block a couple of blocks or took some items from a chest not intending to grief then his whole work would be gone
 
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