Requests to Change Hate Speech Punishment Path

[ChocBar]

From time to time, requests to change the hate speech (HS) punishment path are made. A thread was recently created requesting harsher punishments. Below I will try to explain the reasons for the current path and address the typical concerns raised.

General Philosophy
Before discussing the Hate Speech (HS) punishment path, I would like to give some information on our punishment system.

• Our punishments are based on increasing consequences for repeated violations. The 1st offense will have a shorter punishment time than the 4th offense. This is why new players generally receive shorter punishments - it’s their 1st offense.
• The basic chat violation classifications are
  • Minor (e.g. CAPs, spam),
  • Moderate (e.g. Disrespect, Inappropriate Chat),
  • Major (e.g. Hate Speech, Flame Wars),
  • Malicious (r.g. Dox, DDoS, and threats).
  • Special Cases
• We try to give the lowest punishment that will stop a player from violating the same rule. If a mute will stop the behavior we mute.
• Malicious chat violations result in a perm ban.

HS Punishment Concerns
Before making changes to any punishments, I want to know what problems will be solved. The typical reasons given for changing the HS punishment paths are below, with my responses.

• It's a kid's game.
  • It's also the internet. Children should not be playing on a multiplayer server without parental supervision.
  • ManaCube is not just a “kids server”. We want adults to play and enjoy ManaCube without being treated like children.
• The initial 3h mute is too lenient. Trolls just return after 3 hours.
  • I looked through the last 10,000 mutes on ManaCube. Of those, roughly 36% were for using Hate Speech.
  • There were 3,111 unique individuals responsible for those mutes. This means there were 522 repeat offenders. This means roughly 85% stopped after their first offense.
• More times than not, players will come close to a perm mute rather than leaving after 1 time, The exception is if their intent was to say it, leave, and not return.
  • The data above does not support this claim.
  • About 85% of players were muted only once for HS
  • About 9% stopped after the 2nd offense (1 day mute)
  • About 3% stopped after their 3rd offense (7 days mute)
  • The remaining 3% continued on.
  • At any point on this path, staff may contact an Admin to discuss early perm mute.
• The community does not feel secure with players able to use HS many times before perm mute.
  • I do not see hate speech as a safety issue. Pedophiles, doxing, and swatting are safety issues.
  • Agreeing on what constitutes HS is difficult. The Admins don’t even fully agree. Giving no warning and starting with an even harsher punishment is not very welcoming to new players. Once they learn we take HS seriously, they tend to stop using it.
• HS punishments start at the same length as lesser punishments in the Moderate path.
  • The moderate path includes two warnings prior to muting.
  • The HS path results in perm mute with fewer offenses.
  • A 3h mute typically stops less mature players who don’t realize the impact of their words. A more malicious player that continues will have 1d mute next which stops most HS usage.
• The initial 3h mute may be effective, but does it really match the seriousness of the offense?
  • Many players muted for 3h when joking with friends or using words they don’t know are considered hate speech then complain the punishment is too harsh.
  • The initial 3h mute followed by rapidly increasing punishment lengths lets players know hate speech will not be tolerated.
  • I get more people in my DMs about disrespect, bullying, and harassment than I do hate speech that is rarely directed at anyone.
• I’d rather have someone intentionally causing problems as bad as HS to be perm muted after 3 offenses than 5.
  • I can see an argument for changing some of the later parts of the punishment path. There are no plans for when or if this might happen.
• The hate speech path should not include flame wars or arguing with staff/disrupting chat. Hate speech should be separate from the more annoying behaviors.
  • It’s not meant to compare the severity of the behaviors, but to punish toxic players more harshly. Combining the punishments allows all three toxic behaviors to be counted towards perm mute.
• A scenario discussed would be if someone is disrespectful one day then comes back the next and is rude again or calls someone the N-word would receive the same time mute regardless.
  • Staff may this discuss with an admin
• Since hate speech builds, party names, and other methods outside of general chat start at a 1d punishment, chat punishments should also start at 1d.
  • Hate Speech builds take much more effort and may be present much longer than the words scrolling by in chat. In addition, since muting won’t stop more offensive builds or party names the punishment is a ban.
  • Likewise, a temp ban is issued if the party owner is not in-game to change the party name. However, if they are in-game, we explain the rules to them, have them change the name, and give a 3h mute. Refusing to change it results in a ban.
• Players that spam hate speech again when unmuted should be perm muted.
  • Staff can discuss these types of situations on Discord and deal with them.
    

Future Changes

Personally, I am not convinced that changes to the initial HS punishment (3h mute) are needed or justified. The punishment is effective as is. I could see some justification for editing later portions of the punishment path, but there are no current plans to do so.

Most punishment paths will be reviewed throughout 2023 as we continually try to improve our processes.

 

[sophiaaah <3]

luv u choc

 

[woolly26]

Yay Im top 1

 

[woolly26]

Guess Ill have to live with my perma mute Happy Christmas .

 

[woolly26]

A scenario discussed would be if someone is disrespectful one day then comes back the next and is rude again or calls someone the N-word would receive the same time mute regardless.
@ChocBar what if the said racist word was said but wasnt directed to one person or a group of players will it be considered hate speech or disrespect ?

 

[woolly26]

From time to time, requests to change the hate speech (HS) punishment path are made. A thread was recently created requesting harsher punishments. Below I will try to explain the reasons for the current path and address the typical concerns raised.

General Philosophy
Before discussing the Hate Speech (HS) punishment path, I would like to give some information on our punishment system.

• Our punishments are based on increasing consequences for repeated violations. The 1st offense will have a shorter punishment time than the 4th offense. This is why new players generally receive shorter punishments - it’s their 1st offense.
• The basic chat violation classifications are
  • Minor (e.g. CAPs, spam),
  • Moderate (e.g. Disrespect, Inappropriate Chat),
  • Major (e.g. Hate Speech, Flame Wars),
  • Malicious (r.g. Dox, DDoS, and threats).
  • Special Cases
• We try to give the lowest punishment that will stop a player from violating the same rule. If a mute will stop the behavior we mute.
• Malicious chat violations result in a perm ban.

HS Punishment Concerns
Before making changes to any punishments, I want to know what problems will be solved. The typical reasons given for changing the HS punishment paths are below, with my responses.

• It's a kid's game.
  • It's also the internet. Children should not be playing on a multiplayer server without parental supervision.
  • ManaCube is not just a “kids server”. We want adults to play and enjoy ManaCube without being treated like children.
• The initial 3h mute is too lenient. Trolls just return after 3 hours.
  • I looked through the last 10,000 mutes on ManaCube. Of those, roughly 36% were for using Hate Speech.
  • There were 3,111 unique individuals responsible for those mutes. This means there were 522 repeat offenders. This means roughly 85% stopped after their first offense.
• More times than not, players will come close to a perm mute rather than leaving after 1 time, The exception is if their intent was to say it, leave, and not return.
  • The data above does not support this claim.
  • About 85% of players were muted only once for HS
  • About 9% stopped after the 2nd offense (1 day mute)
  • About 3% stopped after their 3rd offense (7 days mute)
  • The remaining 3% continued on.
  • At any point on this path, staff may contact an Admin to discuss early perm mute.
• The community does not feel secure with players able to use HS many times before perm mute.
  • I do not see hate speech as a safety issue. Pedophiles, doxing, and swatting are safety issues.
  • Agreeing on what constitutes HS is difficult. The Admins don’t even fully agree. Giving no warning and starting with an even harsher punishment is not very welcoming to new players. Once they learn we take HS seriously, they tend to stop using it.
• HS punishments start at the same length as lesser punishments in the Moderate path.
  • The moderate path includes two warnings prior to muting.
  • The HS path results in perm mute with fewer offenses.
  • A 3h mute typically stops less mature players who don’t realize the impact of their words. A more malicious player that continues will have 1d mute next which stops most HS usage.
• The initial 3h mute may be effective, but does it really match the seriousness of the offense?
  • Many players muted for 3h when joking with friends or using words they don’t know are considered hate speech then complain the punishment is too harsh.
  • The initial 3h mute followed by rapidly increasing punishment lengths lets players know hate speech will not be tolerated.
  • I get more people in my DMs about disrespect, bullying, and harassment than I do hate speech that is rarely directed at anyone.
• I’d rather have someone intentionally causing problems as bad as HS to be perm muted after 3 offenses than 5.
  • I can see an argument for changing some of the later parts of the punishment path. There are no plans for when or if this might happen.
• The hate speech path should not include flame wars or arguing with staff/disrupting chat. Hate speech should be separate from the more annoying behaviors.
  • It’s not meant to compare the severity of the behaviors, but to punish toxic players more harshly. Combining the punishments allows all three toxic behaviors to be counted towards perm mute.
• A scenario discussed would be if someone is disrespectful one day then comes back the next and is rude again or calls someone the N-word would receive the same time mute regardless.
  • Staff may this discuss with an admin
• Since hate speech builds, party names, and other methods outside of general chat start at a 1d punishment, chat punishments should also start at 1d.
  • Hate Speech builds take much more effort and may be present much longer than the words scrolling by in chat. In addition, since muting won’t stop more offensive builds or party names the punishment is a ban.
  • Likewise, a temp ban is issued if the party owner is not in-game to change the party name. However, if they are in-game, we explain the rules to them, have them change the name, and give a 3h mute. Refusing to change it results in a ban.
• Players that spam hate speech again when unmuted should be perm muted.
  • Staff can discuss these types of situations on Discord and deal with them.

Future Changes

Personally, I am not convinced that changes to the initial HS punishment (3h mute) are needed or justified. The punishment is effective as is. I could see some justification for editing later portions of the punishment path, but there are no current plans to do so.

Most punishment paths will be reviewed throughout 2023 as we continually try to improve our processes.

I have a question regarding the punishments , why do players receive punishments in game for acts they do in forums or receive bonus punishments next to a ban or mute even tho the punishment is either a mute or a ban shouldnt there be an exception bracket in forum where other types of punishments are given ?

 

[SkyDieGame]

A scenario discussed would be if someone is disrespectful one day then comes back the next and is rude again or calls someone the N-word would receive the same time mute regardless.
@ChocBar what if the said racist word was said but wasnt directed to one person or a group of players will it be considered hate speech or disrespect ?

We do punish for hatespeech words no matter if they are directed to anyone. They would then proceed on the hs path

 

[woolly26]

We do punish for hatespeech words no matter if they are directed to anyone. They would then proceed on the hs path

Well its not the same as saying the thing and actually meaning it

 

[HollowShell]

We do punish for hatespeech words no matter if they are directed to anyone. They would then proceed on the hs path

<screenshot of Staff saying slurs removed by purpz due to the nature of the discussion of hate speech rules,>

yikes

//warned

 

[ChocBar]

@woolly26

That way of thinking is why the small percentage of players earn a perm mute.

Hate Speech is hateful to others regardless of your intent when using it. That is why it is punished without warning and starts at a longer duration than simply over using CAPs. It’s about the impact of your words on others. People trying to be edgy or ‘joking’ doesn’t make the behavior less offensive.

Once you know better you need to do better. When players don’t learn how to interact with others the longer mute times are intended to make them think about their actions and improve. Unfortunately there are players that use their punishment time to blame others, accuse staff of bias or incompetence, and make excuses for their own behavior.

We can’t stop players from complaining about their hate speech punishments, but we can shield the community from their self-centered and thoughtless behavior until they learn to peacefully co-exist with our diverse community.

 

[Noah.]

thanks

 

[sophiaaah <3]

I have a question regarding the punishments , why do players receive punishments in game for acts they do in forums or receive bonus punishments next to a ban or mute even tho the punishment is either a mute or a ban shouldnt there be an exception bracket in forum where other types of punishments are given ?

Punishments dont travel across. If you get muted ingame, you're not muted on forums and vice versa

 

[Blurpyfied]

From time to time, requests to change the hate speech (HS) punishment path are made. A thread was recently created requesting harsher punishments. Below I will try to explain the reasons for the current path and address the typical concerns raised.

General Philosophy
Before discussing the Hate Speech (HS) punishment path, I would like to give some information on our punishment system.

• Our punishments are based on increasing consequences for repeated violations. The 1st offense will have a shorter punishment time than the 4th offense. This is why new players generally receive shorter punishments - it’s their 1st offense.
• The basic chat violation classifications are
  • Minor (e.g. CAPs, spam),
  • Moderate (e.g. Disrespect, Inappropriate Chat),
  • Major (e.g. Hate Speech, Flame Wars),
  • Malicious (r.g. Dox, DDoS, and threats).
  • Special Cases
• We try to give the lowest punishment that will stop a player from violating the same rule. If a mute will stop the behavior we mute.
• Malicious chat violations result in a perm ban.

HS Punishment Concerns
Before making changes to any punishments, I want to know what problems will be solved. The typical reasons given for changing the HS punishment paths are below, with my responses.

• It's a kid's game.
  • It's also the internet. Children should not be playing on a multiplayer server without parental supervision.
  • ManaCube is not just a “kids server”. We want adults to play and enjoy ManaCube without being treated like children.
• The initial 3h mute is too lenient. Trolls just return after 3 hours.
  • I looked through the last 10,000 mutes on ManaCube. Of those, roughly 36% were for using Hate Speech.
  • There were 3,111 unique individuals responsible for those mutes. This means there were 522 repeat offenders. This means roughly 85% stopped after their first offense.
• More times than not, players will come close to a perm mute rather than leaving after 1 time, The exception is if their intent was to say it, leave, and not return.
  • The data above does not support this claim.
  • About 85% of players were muted only once for HS
  • About 9% stopped after the 2nd offense (1 day mute)
  • About 3% stopped after their 3rd offense (7 days mute)
  • The remaining 3% continued on.
  • At any point on this path, staff may contact an Admin to discuss early perm mute.
• The community does not feel secure with players able to use HS many times before perm mute.
  • I do not see hate speech as a safety issue. Pedophiles, doxing, and swatting are safety issues.
  • Agreeing on what constitutes HS is difficult. The Admins don’t even fully agree. Giving no warning and starting with an even harsher punishment is not very welcoming to new players. Once they learn we take HS seriously, they tend to stop using it.
• HS punishments start at the same length as lesser punishments in the Moderate path.
  • The moderate path includes two warnings prior to muting.
  • The HS path results in perm mute with fewer offenses.
  • A 3h mute typically stops less mature players who don’t realize the impact of their words. A more malicious player that continues will have 1d mute next which stops most HS usage.
• The initial 3h mute may be effective, but does it really match the seriousness of the offense?
  • Many players muted for 3h when joking with friends or using words they don’t know are considered hate speech then complain the punishment is too harsh.
  • The initial 3h mute followed by rapidly increasing punishment lengths lets players know hate speech will not be tolerated.
  • I get more people in my DMs about disrespect, bullying, and harassment than I do hate speech that is rarely directed at anyone.
• I’d rather have someone intentionally causing problems as bad as HS to be perm muted after 3 offenses than 5.
  • I can see an argument for changing some of the later parts of the punishment path. There are no plans for when or if this might happen.
• The hate speech path should not include flame wars or arguing with staff/disrupting chat. Hate speech should be separate from the more annoying behaviors.
  • It’s not meant to compare the severity of the behaviors, but to punish toxic players more harshly. Combining the punishments allows all three toxic behaviors to be counted towards perm mute.
• A scenario discussed would be if someone is disrespectful one day then comes back the next and is rude again or calls someone the N-word would receive the same time mute regardless.
  • Staff may this discuss with an admin
• Since hate speech builds, party names, and other methods outside of general chat start at a 1d punishment, chat punishments should also start at 1d.
  • Hate Speech builds take much more effort and may be present much longer than the words scrolling by in chat. In addition, since muting won’t stop more offensive builds or party names the punishment is a ban.
  • Likewise, a temp ban is issued if the party owner is not in-game to change the party name. However, if they are in-game, we explain the rules to them, have them change the name, and give a 3h mute. Refusing to change it results in a ban.
• Players that spam hate speech again when unmuted should be perm muted.
  • Staff can discuss these types of situations on Discord and deal with them.

Future Changes

Personally, I am not convinced that changes to the initial HS punishment (3h mute) are needed or justified. The punishment is effective as is. I could see some justification for editing later portions of the punishment path, but there are no current plans to do so.

Most punishment paths will be reviewed throughout 2023 as we continually try to improve our processes.

THANK LORD THIS WAS MADE

 

[woolly26]

Jeez hope u dont turn perma mutes into bans cuz I wouldve been perm banned 5 times on the network

 

[woolly26]

THANK LORD THIS WAS MADE

Ok and

 

[QuasiSynth]

purpz reply to this was very good.
however i still believe if someone says the n word directly that should be treated as a different case and should result as a harsher punishment. (eg 3 days or 1 week mute for saying the n word)

 

[woolly26]

purpz reply to this was very good.
however i still believe if someone says the n word directly that should be treated as a different case and should result as a harsher punishment. (eg 3 days or 1 week mute for saying the n word)

Agreed

 

[ChocBar]

purpz reply to this was very good.
however i still believe if someone says the n word directly that should be treated as a different case and should result as a harsher punishment. (eg 3 days or 1 week mute for saying the n word)

I’m going to assume that you mean if any hate speech is targeted it should be a harsher punishment than using ‘untargeted’ hate speech. I can’t personally agree that the n-word is the only hate speech that would deserve a separate punishment.

I can understand feeling that way, especially with the chat filter blocking most hate speech and making it so extra effort is needed to be vile. I can’t predict whether or not changes will be made, but we are certainly aware that some staff and players feel there should be.

I will say that for targeted hate speech, as with any toxic behavior, staff have the option to discuss the issue with admins so an accelerated punishment path can be considered. Obviously the issue with that is that they need to wait for a response from an admin. But, as I said we are constantly looking for ways to improve our processes and will continue reviewing and improving the Staff Handbook throughout 2023.

 

[ChocBar]

Punishments dont travel across. If you get muted ingame, you're not muted on forums and vice versa

In general punishments across platforms are not combined. The punishment tracking systems are separate and unique, and rules are slightly different on Discord and Forums. However, our staff team does well tracking the most toxic players and does consider overall behavior when requesting accelerated punishment paths. When we do use accelerated paths we are frequently accused of bias and targeting specific players. Regardless, we try to do what is best for the community and for the players that do follow the rules.

Some punishments routinely carry across Discord and in-game. This mostly applies to any illegal actions. It also applies to unsubstantiated accusations about others committing illegal infractions. However. for most infractions the in-game and Discord infractions are separate.

Some general rules-of-thumb.

• For any permanent bans given in-game you will be banned if you type in our Discord.
• For malicious activity, if you are banned on Discord you will likely be banned in-game as well.
• When reviewing appeals we consider overall behavior on the all platforms.
• For all but the most toxic players we try to avoid permanent Forums bans. This is to allow for players to appeal their bans. If you manage to get perm banned from our Forums you will rarely be welcomed back.

 

[woolly26]

In general punishments across platforms are not combined. The punishment tracking systems are separate and unique, and rules are slightly different on Discord and Forums. However, our staff team does well tracking the most toxic players and does consider overall behavior when requesting accelerated punishment paths. When we do use accelerated paths we are frequently accused of bias and targeting specific players. Regardless, we try to do what is best for the community and for the players that do follow the rules.

Some punishments routinely carry across Discord and in-game. This mostly applies to any illegal actions. It also applies to unsubstantiated accusations about others committing illegal infractions. However. for most infractions the in-game and Discord infractions are separate.

Some general rules-of-thumb.

• For any permanent bans given in-game you will be banned if you type in our Discord.
• For malicious activity, if you are banned on Discord you will likely be banned in-game as well.
• When reviewing appeals we consider overall behavior on the all platforms.
• For all but the most toxic players we try to avoid permanent Forums bans. This is to allow for players to appeal their bans. If you manage to get perm banned from our Forums you will rarely be welcomed back.

Is there a way to make 25th task easier , people wont be able to play on manacube that day because they are prolly gonna visit their family members for christmas and gonna spend time with them .